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» Pros and Cons .................. by roscobbc on Mon 22 May 17 18:34

Pros and Cons ..................


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Daytona Vette

Club Member

Thu 18 May 17 20:37

Pros and Cons ..................


There have been many discussions regarding the possible future location of the Vette power plant, be it front, mid or rear.

For the time being disregarding the manufacturing costs.

In pursuance of ultimate road holding and outright performance should Chevrolet be considering all wheel drive rather than the position of the engine?


--------------------
Barry - Daytona Vette

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FranV8

Club Member

Thu 18 May 17 22:30


Yes. Because it would be great to have a Vette that does it all for you. In fact in pursuance of maximum performance they should make it autonomous too.

No no and no. Mid engine is bad enough (sorry), all wheel drive needs to be left to cars for people where they need to cross farmland, icy wastes or need an Audi to brag about how fast it goes.

What I like about the Vette, even with the nod to the latest driver aids, you need to both drive it and respect it to get the most out of it. It rewards those who can really use them (not me btw!)



Last edited by FranV8 on Thu 18 May 17 22:31; edited 1 time in total. [0 %]
--------------------
1995 Corvette LT1 6-Speed Coupe
2007 Honda UFO

Previous
1986 Corvette Z51 Coupe

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roscobbc

Committee Member

Thu 18 May 17 22:41

Re: Pros and Cons ..................


Why change to a mid-engine combo when as stock the car in most guises has 50/50 weight distribution. At worst an iron big block car is something like 52/48. I'm guessing a mid engine placement may even reverse the weight distribution - adversely perhaps Scratchchin
All these wonderful electronic safety, cornering and traction aids give so many people a false sense of security. Irrespective of anything the contact patch on the road surface even with the very widest tyres is miniscule. Does any really think that a car with 600, 700 or a 100 bhp actually puts this down on the road surface. The cars would be more or less undriveable if the electronics didn't significantly reduce power output significantly.


--------------------
CCCUK Chairman & Editor, Vette News
'68 coupe - 4 speed - 3.08 - 489 cu in - 570 bhp @ 5850 rpm - 606 ft/lbs torque (821 Newton Metres) @ 3850 rpm
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FranV8

Club Member

Thu 18 May 17 22:46


I don't think Chevrolet chase the big muscle car thing with the Corvette, and arguably the better balanced cars are better than the extreme ones (e.g. Grand Sport vs Z06 in C7, Z06 vs ZR1, or ZR-1 in the C6, etc. etc.) - GM I'm glad to see aren't chasing hp or out there 0-60's that Chrysler are. I think the Corvette is a more sophisticated sports car offering. Just my 2pworth.


--------------------
1995 Corvette LT1 6-Speed Coupe
2007 Honda UFO

Previous
1986 Corvette Z51 Coupe

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philv8

Club Member

Fri 19 May 17 08:56

Re: Pros and Cons ..................


The beauty of the Corvette is that it remains a 'blue collar' sports car. Despite various people in the media referring to it as a muscle car... it's not and whilst very few of us on this side of the Atlantic can afford a new C7, against its competition it's still a relatively cheap car.

Wouldn't the introduction of a mid-engine both hike prices and alienate the traditional Corvette buyer? Have to say I wouldn't want one and as for working on it......

Logically, if GM do produce a mid-engine car, isn't it more likely to be a Cadillac. They have gone back into racing, trying to attract the younger buyers but, interestingly, they have recently given their 'full-size' XTS model a stay of execution and a face-lift because it outsells the smaller CTS and ATS models which aren't as attractive to the older buyers.

As for horsepower, how many of us really use what's available anyway? It's like 0-60 times, they rely on so many other factors to achieve. The more important (in my view) are the 30-50 and 50-70 times which are more useful in the real world. Top speed is the same, for most it's a bragging right. Bet there aren't many 205 mph road-going Ferrari's that have got there.

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roppa440

Club Member

Fri 19 May 17 09:11

Re: Pros and Cons ..................


Teaching grandmother to suck eggs here but let me see if this Geordie that's had a Corvette for 5 mins has the right line of thought on this.

My impression;

The Corvette is not and has never been a muscle car.

It always TRIED to be a "Sports Car" in a world where young upper and middle class men liked European sports cars.

But then another type of "Sports Car" came out in Europe. What we now call "Super Cars". These were about top speed as much as handling.

Corvette threw their hat into that arena with the C4. The first Corvette to have a top speed of 150mph. The C5/6 dug deeper into that world. The C7 is right on the edge of being considered a supercar by the mainstream.

GM just seem to be working harder and harder to get into the Suoercar club. They seem to be looking for world wide recognition and prestige rather than just the home market.

To remove all the barriers completely between Corvette and Supercar they need to go mid-engine. That configuration is not just about static weight balance. It's about dynamic balance. Or where the actual mass is in relation to the force applied to it. i.e. the front wheels as they try to make the car turn.

Think about trying to lift a weight. You can do it. But it is much easier if the weight is on the end of a lever with the fulcrum forward of the mass.

With the engine mass further back the car will turn into corners much sharper.

The C8 will at last to be able to compete with the big boys on the track. Maybe even beat them. That will also open up big boys wallets. It will not be an affordable car for most of us.


So that is my impression of what is going on. I might be completely off the mark. You guys know a lot more about the history of Corvette than me that's for sure.

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roscobbc

Committee Member

Fri 19 May 17 17:09

Re: Pros and Cons ..................


Can't argue with Roppa's logic and analogy, certainly where 'dynamic' handling is concerned - Corvette not a 'muscle' car? - what is the definition of a 'muscle' car? - something big block, overpowered with more power than it can possibly hope to handle? - you could certainly 'point the finger' at many mid, late 60's and early 70's USA vehicles.
If you mention the word 'Corvette' in front of 'Muscle' car enthusiasts you will get howls of protest along the lines "that friggin' thang ain't a Muscle car, its a goddammed sports car" accompanied by plenty of spittin' on the ground.
My personal view is that any Vette produced C4 onwards is definately a 'sports car' and a ZR1/Callaway perhaps describable as a 'muscular' sports car. But here's where I'll probably offend everyone - IMHO a big block C2 or C3 Vette is the very ultimate 'Muscle' car - a 'sports' car that actually' is capable of putting all that power down to the ground without erupting in clouds of tyre smoke from poor traction control and more than capably of shuttin' down all other contenders Yes



Last edited by roscobbc on Fri 19 May 17 17:10; edited 1 time in total. [3 %]
--------------------
CCCUK Chairman & Editor, Vette News
'68 coupe - 4 speed - 3.08 - 489 cu in - 570 bhp @ 5850 rpm - 606 ft/lbs torque (821 Newton Metres) @ 3850 rpm
Image

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roppa440

Club Member

Sat 20 May 17 07:44

Re: Pros and Cons ..................


Muscle cars in the 60s were based on two door hard tops in the medium sized chassis range normally fitted with small non-performance engines. They were then fitted with an engine from the largest chassis range and given a more exciting name to distinguish them from their grocery- getter origins.

Cars like the corvette, mustang and Barracuda were "sporty" cars from conception to compete with the European type cars.

The confusion arises from the cars built in the late 60s. These muscle car versions of car lines were getting very popular and faster than the cars supposed to be sporty. Because sporty had become to mean fast in a straight line and quarter mile times the main bragging right.

GM now also had their own "Mustangs" in the Firebird and Camaro. So a "performance" war (in a straight line and at NASCAR) began between the "Big Three".

So they re-designed the "pony cars" using the chassis and engine bays of the same intermediate cars the muscle cars were based on. They had to be much wider for the big engines.
So these late 60s and early 70s pony cars became muscle cars. They also lost the ability to corner well.

Apart from making big blocks available to keep up with the trends, the Corvette never really went through these chassis changes. They never completely ruined the handling just to go faster in a straight line.

So I can see how looking back people can think of the big block corvettes as muscle cars, and indeed it was the muscle car theme that forced big block options to be available in the vette, but at the time I don't personally remember anyone ever calling a Corvette a muscle car until the 80s at least and only by people that had never heard the term until then.

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FranV8

Club Member

Sat 20 May 17 08:14


Yes, I think you're spot on there Dave, big block Cobra's and Corvettes are not in my opinion muscle cars, your description of what is is spot on for me.


--------------------
1995 Corvette LT1 6-Speed Coupe
2007 Honda UFO

Previous
1986 Corvette Z51 Coupe

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kentvette

Club Member

Sat 20 May 17 09:26

Re: Pros and Cons ..................


I have to pick up on one thing that Roppa listed:

The C8 will at last to be able to compete with the big boys on the track. Maybe even beat them. That will also open up big boys wallets. It will not be an affordable car for most of us.

Lest we forget, Corvette has been the most successful sports car in the class it races in for years now, despite what Porsche or Ferrari might like to think. Many people talk about "Corvette's Golden Era" of racing, referring back to the 60s. The reality is this is Corvettes golden era.

I'm no fan at all of mid engine cars, most of which are hugely overrated. But, Ford have used the anomaly of the rules (not to mention lied a little!) to build a race car lightly disguised as a road car (again, not a particularly good one I understand) and have pulled off a few wins. No doubt Corvette Racing feel that a ME layout might make beating them, easier, which must be some of the driver for a ME car. People have been banging on about ME cars since Duntov, but that was never in the original remit of Corvette. GM has talked about a "halo car" and for my part I hope that's all it is. Dropping the FE/RWD format for an impractical ME car would lose a whole load of customers.

Will it be a "Caddy"? A few people think so.... Would that "degrade" the Corvette? I wonder.....


--------------------
Stephen J Irons
CCCUK Lifetime Member
Corvette Club France
Corvettes of Southern California
NCM Family Member
Stephen & June's Web Site
Red Corvettes Have More Fun!

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