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Wheel Alignment


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Redlevel

Club Member

Wed 14 Feb 18 12:05

Re: Wheel Alignment


My understanding of caster is the difference between older US cars and European cars.

US cars tended to have zero or -ve caster which made the steering very light to enable all members of the public to drive them (..little old ladies from Pasadena in Super Stock Dodges etc... Surprised This, in extreme versions, made the car steer you instead (..anyone who jacked up a leaf sprung car way too high back in the '70's will understand this Laughing )

So with Euro cars and their attitude toward +ve caster is why they would handle better than US cars as stock, but those with an understanding of suspension geometry could make those musclecars drive just as well as Europes finest.. Yes

I'm no expert and I have no easy access to any facilities or expertise so everything has to be home grown or online advice taken and tried out, but I'm very happy with how my '87 drives these days, not that I thrash it around but it is delightful and confidence inspiring on those rare days when I get on it. Cool

To me, this is the fun part of owning such a car, ..to do things myself and have it work out by trial and error rather than just throw cash at the problem and learn nothing.. Scratchchin

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Daytona Vette

Club Member

Wed 14 Feb 18 13:22

Re: Wheel Alignment


roppa440 wrote (View Post):I had to get my C5 re-aligned after lowering and suspension upgrades so I did some online research and, coupled with my own experiences in setting up other American cars, came up with these settings for the C5 Coupe;

Front Toe ZERO

Steering Wheel Angle 0.0 degree

Front Individual Caster MAX adjustable positive matched side to side

Front Individual Camber -0.50 degree

Rear Individual Toe ZERO

Rear Thrust Angle 0.0 degree

Rear Individual Camber -0.45 degree

I have a very good independent garage just around the corner run by a genuine car enthusiast. He is also very knowledgeable and he was able to set my car up for me at a cost of 75. However on another visit for a MOT test he checked the whole lot again for free because he had just had his stuff re-calibrated and wanted to check it was still OK.

He was surprised at my request for a lot of caster. But when test driving it he saw where I was coming from. The car turns into corners much faster. He was quite impressed.


Dave was your man able to weigh each corner of the car whilst he was setting it up?


--------------------
Barry - Daytona Vette

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roppa440

Club Member

Wed 14 Feb 18 13:44

Re: Wheel Alignment


Daytona Vette wrote (View Post):Dave was your man able to weigh each corner of the car whilst he was setting it up?

No. The settings I asked for are the settings I got. They are taken from people that set up and race these cars professionally. The weight at each wheel was not taken into consideration and because it is not a race car and sometimes has luggage and a passenger I didn't see the point of trying.

I also did not take road camber into effect. By rights you should. But again there are too many variables in the roads so I didn't bother.

You are talking about static weight. The weight on each wheel when moving is dynamic and bears no resemblance to the static weight. So not sure exactly how much in the real world it actually effects things.

I do tend to drive and corner very fast. But I am not trying to set a lap speed or get from A to B a second faster.

I have to be realistic. I also have a very small budget. I do what I can afford when I can.

I wanted a car that is much better to drive than it was as stock. That's all I wanted and that's what I (quite noticeably) got.

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Daytona Vette

Club Member

Wed 14 Feb 18 13:47

Re: Wheel Alignment


stevel98 wrote (View Post):My understanding of caster is the difference between older US cars and European cars.

US cars tended to have zero or -ve caster which made the steering very light to enable all members of the public to drive them (..little old ladies from Pasadena in Super Stock Dodges etc... Surprised This, in extreme versions, made the car steer you instead (..anyone who jacked up a leaf sprung car way too high back in the '70's will understand this Laughing )

So with Euro cars and their attitude toward +ve caster is why they would handle better than US cars as stock, but those with an understanding of suspension geometry could make those musclecars drive just as well as Europes finest.. Yes

I'm no expert and I have no easy access to any facilities or expertise so everything has to be home grown or online advice taken and tried out, but I'm very happy with how my '87 drives these days, not that I thrash it around but it is delightful and confidence inspiring on those rare days when I get on it. Cool

To me, this is the fun part of owning such a car, ..to do things myself and have it work out by trial and error rather than just throw cash at the problem and learn nothing.. Scratchchin


That is Brill and how great to have some understanding and then have to work things out for yourself and then try them out - There are too many times in life when so called experts can tell you the correct answer (because it is a given) but do not understand the first principals and have not got a clue why? - I digressed sorry!

However with regard to feeling satisfied with your own car's handling - I too had a car that I would say; "on the black smooth stuff it handled like a Train on a Track" then I was shown what the car was doing of its own accord and I was correcting it with input and I didn't even know. (and I know my cars) But now having had the right treatment it has transformed what I thought was good to something that is very good, it does what I want much better and it stays where I put it, it is now both safer and quicker and gives me more confidence and even more of a buzz - and I thought it was good before..........................


--------------------
Barry - Daytona Vette

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roppa440

Club Member

Wed 14 Feb 18 13:52

Re: Wheel Alignment


Daytona Vette wrote (View Post):- and I thought it was good before..........................

Yeah but a stock C4 probably handles nearly as well as your C3 does now and a stock C5 very much more.

Very Happy silly

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Daytona Vette

Club Member

Wed 14 Feb 18 13:57

Re: Wheel Alignment


roppa440 wrote (View Post):Daytona Vette wrote (View Post):Dave was your man able to weigh each corner of the car whilst he was setting it up?

No. The settings I asked for are the settings I got. They are taken from people that set up and race these cars professionally. The weight at each wheel was not taken into consideration and because it is not a race car and sometimes has luggage and a passenger I didn't see the point of trying.

I also did not take road camber into effect. By rights you should. But again there are too many variables in the roads so I didn't bother.

You are talking about static weight. The weight on each wheel when moving is dynamic and bears no resemblance to the static weight. So not sure exactly how much in the real world it actually effects things.

I do tend to drive and corner very fast. But I am not trying to set a lap speed or get from A to B a second faster.

I have to be realistic. I also have a very small budget. I do what I can afford when I can.

I wanted a car that is much better to drive than it was as stock. That's all I wanted and that's what I (quite noticeably) got.


The dynamic weights and static weights may be different, but the dynamic weights are based on the static weights and if there is an inbalance on the static, that will carry over to the dynamic.

I only asked the question because I remember many posts ago when you mentioned that you could not get the power down as much as you wanted due to insufficient traction, because if your man has a corner weighting facility he could give you more traction at the rear.


--------------------
Barry - Daytona Vette

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Daytona Vette

Club Member

Wed 14 Feb 18 13:58

Re: Wheel Alignment


roppa440 wrote (View Post):Daytona Vette wrote (View Post):- and I thought it was good before..........................

Yeah but a stock C4 probably handles nearly as well as your C3 does now and a stock C5 very much more.

Very Happy silly


C4 should be better because it is later


--------------------
Barry - Daytona Vette

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roppa440

Club Member

Wed 14 Feb 18 15:02

Re: Wheel Alignment


Daytona Vette wrote (View Post):I only asked the question because I remember many posts ago when you mentioned that you could not get the power down as much as you wanted due to insufficient traction, because if your man has a corner weighting facility he could give you more traction at the rear.

Different game that. To get weight over the rear tyres the centre of gravity of the car needs to shift rearwards at launch on a drag car. To do that you need stiff suspension at the rear and very soft suspension at the front.

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roppa440

Club Member

Wed 14 Feb 18 15:09

Re: Wheel Alignment


Oh and I have no traction issues since I bought a pair of sticky Mickey Thompsons to use at the track. Thumbs up

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Redlevel

Club Member

Wed 14 Feb 18 15:23

Re: Wheel Alignment


It works for me and the small changes I make are noticeable felt by me as I tend to drive the same route a lot.

Yes I could be kidding myself that its great when it isn't, and probably would be well rubbished if driven in anger on a track, but I don't, so it doesn't matter as I have the measure of it (up to a point) and as long as it points in the right direction and doesn't wear out the tyres prematurely (..that's No.1 for me as I only have one set of 295's left).

C4's have +ve front camber as stock which I find a bit odd.. Having said that, I have fitted KYB dampers which seems to feel nicer these days.



Last edited by Redlevel on Thu 14 Jun 18 11:47; edited 1 time in total. [16 %]

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