Searching for a Chrome bumper C3

[GreigM]

Hi All, new to the forum and Corvettes in general and looking for some advice before I make a mistake, so apologies for a long first post. Have always loved the shape of the C3 and was down at the NEC classics a few weeks ago and saw the black '73 350 auto that was for sale. Great looking car and was immediately attracted to it, but having done a little research it would seem the price was extremely high - I think it was 55k at the show, now on pistoheads at 45k which still seems to be way ahead of the market, or am I wrong? It has had a full refurb inside and out, but even still it would seem to be sitting at almost twice the price of any other similar-spec C3 out there (to my uneducated eyes anyway).

In any case it has piqued my interest and I have money sitting which should be paid to the tax-man, but I'd happily do something silly and buy another car instead. There's a couple coming up for auction soon (which would be risky for me as I can't view them first) and another red one on carandclassic around 27k which would seem to fit my requirements (chrome bumpers, side exit pipes, manual, a fair amount of work done recently), but if I go view I'd like to make doubly sure of what I'm looking for in the "major" pitfalls of buying a C3.

My immediate checklist from a little reading/googling would be:

• Take off kick panels and look for significant (not just cosmetic) corrosion at the bottom of the birdcage
• Look for corrosion under arches
• Look for corroson around windscreen surround
• Observe a proper cold-start and make sure its not overly smoky and starts/idles and choke functions as expected
• Check all gauges work, particularly battery voltage and oil pressure good
• Check windows aren't catching b-pillar
• Check function of wipers and lights

So a few questions if I can:

1. What would you add/remove to the checklist above - I appreciate old classics aren't perfect, so looking for the things that will cause major headaches or prevent the long journey home
2. Are side exit pipes too loud? Part of the appeal is the sound, but I still want to drive it without a headache
3. My initial preference was for a manual over auto - should I stick to this or is the auto just as satifying
4. Is A/C essential/desireable - I'm in Scotland so it rarely gets warm, but is A/C worth seeking out?

Thanks to anyone who can offer some advice, and if anyone has a nice C3 that fits my bill and wants to sell, please get in touch - I don't have a budget as such and ideally looking for a trouble-free car and not afraid to pay for that convenience, but don't want to pay twice the market rate.

 

[Mr. Cricket]

The black one at the NEC was well over priced INHO.
Include all the above in an inspection but add:

Check the gap where the doors meet the front and rear fenders - they should only be a few MM. I've seen some you could get your hand in.
Check the trim tag in the drivers door opening to see how it was originally sold - paint and interior colour.
Check the engine pad stamp to see if the original motor is present. Look for factory broach marks on the pad (feint lines) to check if it's been decked and broach marks scrubbed.
Remove the inspection panels in the rear arches to see the rear body mount pockets.
When you remove the front kick panels to check the front body mounts which should be a light green factory colour place a white towel or wadded up tissue in there and slam the doors a few times to see what drops down.
Check the radiator support frame for rust.
Check the area just behind the headlights from several angles to look for signs of the headlight support frame rivets rusting and causing upward bubbles. Pain in the arse to remedy and a sign of rust lurking beneath.
Try and get one with tilt/tele for a better driving position.
C3's can get hot on hot days but I've only wished I had AC once in 8 years so not necessary IMHO especially in Scotland
Check the fibre optics work.
Check the wiper door and headlights operate to check the vacuum system. Pain in the arse to find leaks if it has them.
See if the fast idle solenoid is still there and operational, it's nice to have. Drivers side of engine on the side of the carb.
Did it have a SMOG pump? Hard to find all the bits if you want it back on the car and £££££££. Exhaust manifolds may show plugged air injection ports if the smog was removed or an extra groove in the pulley not used.
Side pipes are a personal opinion which I like if not too loud. I put cherry bombs on mine and for a while it was great then I grew up and changed them out (still have them on a shelf)

C3's especially '68 - '73 are great drivers and should appreciate over time if you find the right one. Earlier models have the higher HP motors.

Budget £25 to £35k for a good 'un

 

[Roscobbc]

You will need to add inspection for corrosion to the chassis to that list. Braking system if not maintained properly and can be costly. Also the condition of interior can be expensive to replace if past its sell by date. A/c is a nice option on a big block car which will tend to put more heat into the car than a small block, especially during the summer season.

 

[BigVet]

Hi, we have the ultimate 1973 350/auto C3 T-roof which we were not planning to advertise until the new year. The car is Mille Miglia Red with black leather. A show-piece throughout and very sensibly priced. Give us a call if that may be of interest and we can forward a walk round video plus a great many photographs. Regards, Tom, Dromey Corvettes, 01507 450699

 

[GreigM]

Thanks all for the comments so far, very useful - glad to have my suspicions on the pricing of the Black NEC car confirmed.
Tom@Dromey - will send you a text with my details and follow up with a call when I can get free, thanks.

 

[Roscobbc]

Perhaps you should think about specifics - i.e year of manufacture and your preference - '68 and '69 Vette are very similar in appearance and options. 1970, '71 and '72 will have flared wheel arches and the front grille assemly is a little different. 1973 is a transition year and considered unique with its later design of 'federal' front nose cone (but retaining the chrome rear bumper) with the rear bumper receiving the same treatment the following year.
All Vettes had reduced compressions ratios from 1970 (due to emission requirement) and were reduced even further in the following years 'blunting' performance..
Not all Vettes are created equal. Yes there are small blocks and big blocks, but will have differing capacities and HP outputs, possibly wildly different driving chatacteristics and of course respective values. You will find that an early C3 LT1 which is quite rare and had the highest output of the small blocks could well be a £50K car - as could a tri-carb 427 or 454 powered car, especially a rag top.
I would certainly suggest joining the CCCUK, go to some regional meetings and meet some members with C3's.....they'll no doubt be happy to show their cars to you and take you for a run-out. Where in UK are you located?

 

[Emc]

We have this stunning matching numbers 72 nearing restoration completion
Also next we have a blue 72, then a 73 454
Feel free to

 

[Chuffer]

Thanks all for the comments so far, very useful - glad to have my suspicions on the pricing of the Black NEC car confirmed.
Tom@Dromey - will send you a text with my details and follow up with a call when I can get free, thanks.

A long established club member has contacted me to pass on information he has about a Chrome Bumper C3 convertible for sale by a reputable guy he knows . Call Steve Taylor on 07867 7845009 if you are interested . It might give you another option to consider.

 

[CaptainK]

I have side pipes on my car. It was what I wanted from my car when I was looking for a C3 - sidepipes, manual, chrome bumpers. Side pipes are great and I love the sound mine make when doing short journeys or low speed journeys. But at motorway speeds they are loud. So you might want to test drive a side piped car on the motorway to check you're happy with the sound before buying. In mine, I certainly can't hear a passenger talking to me whilst driving on motorway - you have to shout at each other

 

[antijam]

Personally I think early C3's look better without side pipes - but that's just me. The drone on a long trip can be very wearing too. Mine arrived from the States wearing side pipes, but it was soon reverted to stock.
See here.

 

[Roscobbc]

Personally I think early C3's look better without side pipes - but that's just me. The drone on a long trip can be very wearing too. Mine arrived from the States wearing side pipes, but it was soon reverted to stock.
See here.

Agree with much of Antijams comments. One also needs to carefully consider choice of finish used.
Polished chrome is a risky choice and really depends of how thorough the manufacturer was in terms of prepping the steel before chroming. Then the quality of the chroming itself, we've all probably experienced 'California Chroming' (now replaced premumably by Chinese chroming) that superficially looks OK when first purchased and if used on hot, dry and low humidity days.....but rusts after a few weeks of use.
Stainless steel is a good 'hedge' against corrosion but unless a suitable grade of material has be used can possibly suffer enbrittlement during manufacture and later suffer suffer stress cracks. The surface (as with chrome) may suffer from irreversible 'blueing' of the surface due to exhaust heat.
A better finish in terms of longevity is ceramic coated headers (usually silver finish, but perhaps black too) - if coating has been applied properly by the OEM it will be very resistant to corrosion (except perhaps where header tubes join main collectors). If coated correctly (both internally and externally) they will also be cooler to the touch and maube less likely to burn bare legs and also transmit less noise through the sidewalls (perhaps of less importance to most buyers)
Lower HP rated C3's will not be adversely affected power-wise by side pipes - not so sure about HO small blocks. Big block engines, and definately higher output variants will be limited HP wise unless they are used without muffler inserts (or low retriction 'noisy') inserts.

 

[Chuffer]

I have side pipes on my car. It was what I wanted from my car when I was looking for a C3 - sidepipes, manual, chrome bumpers. Side pipes are great and I love the sound mine make when doing short journeys or low speed journeys. But at motorway speeds they are loud. So you might want to test drive a side piped car on the motorway to check you're happy with the sound before buying. In mine, I certainly can't hear a passenger talking to me whilst driving on motorway - you have to shout at each other

No side pipes on mine , just a de catted straight through exhaust with Supertrapp tail mufflers . At most speeds conversation is pointless unless you shout but at least I can`t hear `er indoors complaining the car is too loud !

 

[Nassau65]

I personally love side pipes, loved the look the first time I saw a mid year with them on. Prefer the factory look of the 1969’s fitted to later C3’s and of course factory versions on C2’s. Most C2 owners do fit factory style as opposed to aftermarket versions. C3’s have a mixture.
Yes, they can be loud, and on C2 coupes the drone is terrible ( convertibles OK tho) but it’s all about the look, and boy do they look good.

 

[Roscobbc]

Must admit I like the appearance/sound (certainly from the outside) of Hooker or similar chrome/stainless steel sidepipes - not so keen on the factory style versions though.
The 2 1/4" OD Hooker Supercomp tube headers on mine lead to 3" diameter pipes, and an 'X' crossover with straight thru' ceramic wool packed mufflers.
Its all quite low frequency noise (a new biker neighbour living opposite came out in to the street thinking I had a Harley!) and only drones at little at lower speeds.
The crossover 'X' pipe system dosen't seem to have that typical big block 'steam hammer' thump at lower revs so not as noisy with its minimal silencing as what might expect......until reaching high rpm - about 5K it really bellows.........but leaves all noise behind you.......

 

[Letank]

Hi All, new to the forum and Corvettes in general and looking for some advice before I make a mistake, so apologies for a long first post. Have always loved the shape of the C3 and was down at the NEC classics a few weeks ago and saw the black '73 350 auto that was for sale. Great looking car and was immediately attracted to it, but having done a little research it would seem the price was extremely high - I think it was 55k at the show, now on pistoheads at 45k which still seems to be way ahead of the market, or am I wrong? It has had a full refurb inside and out, but even still it would seem to be sitting at almost twice the price of any other similar-spec C3 out there (to my uneducated eyes anyway).

In any case it has piqued my interest and I have money sitting which should be paid to the tax-man, but I'd happily do something silly and buy another car instead. There's a couple coming up for auction soon (which would be risky for me as I can't view them first) and another red one on carandclassic around 27k which would seem to fit my requirements (chrome bumpers, side exit pipes, manual, a fair amount of work done recently), but if I go view I'd like to make doubly sure of what I'm looking for in the "major" pitfalls of buying a C3.

My immediate checklist from a little reading/googling would be:

• Take off kick panels and look for significant (not just cosmetic) corrosion at the bottom of the birdcage
• Look for corrosion under arches
• Look for corroson around windscreen surround
• Observe a proper cold-start and make sure its not overly smoky and starts/idles and choke functions as expected
• Check all gauges work, particularly battery voltage and oil pressure good
• Check windows aren't catching b-pillar
• Check function of wipers and lights

So a few questions if I can:

1. What would you add/remove to the checklist above - I appreciate old classics aren't perfect, so looking for the things that will cause major headaches or prevent the long journey home
2. Are side exit pipes too loud? Part of the appeal is the sound, but I still want to drive it without a headache
3. My initial preference was for a manual over auto - should I stick to this or is the auto just as satifying
4. Is A/C essential/desireable - I'm in Scotland so it rarely gets warm, but is A/C worth seeking out?

Thanks to anyone who can offer some advice, and if anyone has a nice C3 that fits my bill and wants to sell, please get in touch - I don't have a budget as such and ideally looking for a trouble-free car and not afraid to pay for that convenience, but don't want to pay twice the market rate.

It looks like you have already done your homework and identified some of the key problem areas . Plenty of great advice from others on this thread too!

Side pipes:
With regards to side pipes, there are several styles, manufacturers available. The only year that offered side pipes from the factory was 69. The pipes are muffled and not so loud, although there are aftermarket chambered exhausts available that have a nicer sound imo.
Aftermarket Hooker or Doug’s side pipes come in a variety of material finishes and muffler insert options. But I believe they come without mufflers unless you specifically purchase those separately. I’ve heard a few cars without any inserts fitted and they were very loud!

Manual or Auto:
I’ve had both and the manual is so much more engaging and enjoyable to drive. The auto always seemed to shift up too early, which made the car feel more like a cruiser than a sports car. However, if I was in the market for another C3 I actually wouldn’t dismiss an auto if everything else about the car was perfect.

A/C:
I really wouldn’t worry about having it or not, unless you plan to drive with the roof up/t-tops on, on the hottest summer days. Even if fitted, you’ll probably find that A/C doesn’t actually work on most C3’s

General:
C3 prices can vary quite a lot depending on model year, spec, condition and originality.

High power and low production run cars command the biggest prices but are very few and far between in the UK. You should expect to pay more for big blocks, manual transmissions and soft tops.

Of the chrome bumper models, 73’s are generally quite a bit cheaper than 68-72’s for equivalent spec and condition.

Prices of your average 68-72 small blocks are probably not too dissimilar, although the later year cars have lower power values and that probably makes the earlier year cars more desirable/valuable.

68’s have many single year parts so they can be more difficult to find parts and restore.

The front and side grilles on 70-72’s can be very very expensive to replace (£k’s!) so beware of any cars where they appear to be damaged.

Although most replacement C3 parts are plentiful, they can be expensive when you consider exchange rates, shipping and duty, so my advice would be to buy the car that needs the least amount of work.

Get yourself a Corvette Black Book and learn the specs/options available in each model year. With one, you’ll be able to confirm how original a car is. Even if you’re not fussed about matching numbers, originality does have an impact on the value of these cars, so it’s something to bear in mind for resale if nothing else.

Ref. the black 73, as others have said it is massively overpriced. Also, black paint wasn’t an option between 70 and 76, so the colour definitely isn’t original, which should devalue it imo.

Good luck with the search

 

[Nassau65]

Was never really worried about the sound of the side exhaust option, it was always about the looks. The V8 motors have always had the “sound” a nice burble. The factory fitted side exhausts did amplify the burble somewhat, and that was good enough for me. A number of the aftermarket products made the noise even louder, to suit the individuals taste.

 

[Nassau65]

Factory or aftermarket on a C3

Both look good

 

[Mr. Cricket]

Ref. the black 73, as others have said it is massively overpriced. Also, black paint wasn’t an option between 70 and 76, so the colour definitely isn’t original, which should devalue it imo.

Good luck with the search

Good info Steve.

Some made it out the door in black (GM staff cars) or were delivered to the dealer in primer for them to paint for the customer. On the trim tag where the exterior colour code would be it would say SPEC as in special order.

 

[Vetman]

Why the obsession with chrome bumpers? I admit they are more valued, but the original C3 concept didn’t have them. They had to be fitted to meet either legal requirements or customer expectation at the time. The designer was probably upset that the purity of his design had to be compromised.

 

[Nassau65]

Chrome bumpers were the norm in the 1960’s the new for 1967 ( yes 67) was always going to have chrome bumpers. Quality control pushed the launch back to 68 and a quick restyle resulted in the last mid year for 1967.
Chrome bumpers do look very period and look good. Saying that the changes to 73 ( front) and 74 (rear) were nicely done and bang up to date. Both are nice in their own way.