Are we still convinced that electric vehicles are the best way forward?

California firefighters had to douse a flaming battery in a EV Tesla Semi with about 50,000 gallons of water to extinguish flames after a crash, the National Transportation Safety Board said Thursday.

In addition to the huge amount of water, firefighters used an aircraft to drop fire retardant on the “immediate area” of the electric truck as a precautionary measure, the agency said in a preliminary report.

Firefighters said previously that the battery reached temperatures of 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit while it was in flames.

The NTSB sent investigators to the Aug. 19 crash along Interstate 80 near Emigrant Gap, about 70 miles northeast of Sacramento. The agency said it would look into fire risks posed by the truck's large lithium-ion battery.

The agency also found that the truck was not operating on one of Tesla's partially automated driving systems at the time of the crash, the report said. The systems weren't operational and “could not be engaged,” according to the agency.

The crash happened about 3:13 a.m. as the tractor-trailer was being driven by a Tesla employee from Livermore, California, to a Tesla facility in Sparks, Nevada. The Semi left the road while going around a curve to the right and hit a tree, the report said. It went down a slope and came to rest against several trees. The driver was not hurt.

After the crash, the Semi's lithium-ion battery ignited. Firefighters used water to put out flames and keep the batteries cool. The freeway was closed for about 15 hours as firefighters made sure the batteries were cool enough to recover the truck.

Authorities took the truck to an open-air facility and monitored it for 24 hours. The battery did not reignite.
The NTSB said all aspects of the crash are under investigation as it determines the cause. The agency said it intends to issue safety recommendations to prevent similar incidents.

A message was left Thursday seeking comment from Tesla, which is based in Austin, Texas.
After an investigation that ended in 2021, the NTSB determined that high-voltage electric vehicle battery fires pose risks to first responders and that guidelines from manufacturers about how to deal with them were inadequate.

President-elect Donald Trump’s transition team is planning to kill the $7,500 consumer tax credit for electric-vehicle purchases as part of broader tax-reform legislation, two sources with direct knowledge of the matter told Reuters.
Ending the tax credit could have grave implications for an already stalling U.S. EV transition.

And yet representatives of Tesla by far the nation’s largest EV seller have told a Trump-transition committee they support ending the subsidy, said the two sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Recall that Joe Biden’s “Inflation Reduction Act” which was really the Green New Deal gave a tax credit up to $7,5000 for people who purchased new electric vehicles through 2032.
Under Biden’s plan, if you bought an electric vehicle averaging $62,893, you might have been eligible for a tax credit of up to $7,500 until the year 2032.

$62,893 is the average price of vehicles sold only through dealerships and does not account for direct-to-consumer sales of more expensive electric vehicles. This number also accounts for all-electric vehicle transactions, both new and used.
The Biden Regime and the Democrats in Congress wasted billions of dollars on the electric vehicle scam.

In 2021, the Democrat-controlled Congress gave Joe Biden $7.5 billion to install electric vehicle chargers all over the country and
only 7 or 8 EV charging stations have been built.
It’s a total scam.

According to a 2021 analysis from the New York Times, $1.2 trillion of the ‘Infrastructure’ bill would be spent over 8 years and $550 billion will go to roads, bridges, rail lines, electric vehicles, water systems and other programs.

Electric vehicles are unpopular, expensive and bad for the environment, but the Biden Regime is going into overdrive to force car companies to produce more EVs while they crack down on gas-powered vehicle tailpipe emissions.

Here in the UK sales of new EV`s are dropping off a cliff with some manufacturers stalling production as they cannot meet their sales targets . This situation will only get worse for them soon ( better in my opinion ) as our new Labour Government has announced the removal of massive Vehicle Excise Duties incentives introduced some years ago during the 14 year Conservative Governments previous tenure in power . Very soon EV drivers will have to pay to use our roads like the rest of us .
In the meantime I happily use my Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi V8 as a daily driver with a smug feeling of satisfaction that it has well and truly `wiped it`s face ` on Carbon Footprint . It is 18 years old and only it`s second owner and have every annual MOT Certificate from new which it has never failed although a couple of " advisories to fix " in the earlier years . During the years I have owned and self maintained the vehicle it passes the MOT test with no advisories every year and the emissions tests continue to be "as clean as they could be" according to the guys at my local testing station . Apart from replacing seized front brake calipers it has only cost me routine maintenance so I am well pleased .

Chuffer said:

Here in the UK sales of new EV`s are dropping off a cliff with some manufacturers stalling production as they cannot meet their sales targets . This situation will only get worse for them soon ( better in my opinion ) as our new Labour Government has announced the removal of massive Vehicle Excise Duties incentives introduced some years ago during the 14 year Conservative Governments previous tenure in power . Very soon EV drivers will have to pay to use our roads like the rest of us .
In the meantime I happily use my Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi V8 as a daily driver with a smug feeling of satisfaction that it has well and truly `wiped it`s face ` on Carbon Footprint . It is 18 years old and only it`s second owner and have every annual MOT Certificate from new which it has never failed although a couple of " advisories to fix " in the earlier years . During the years I have owned and self maintained the vehicle it passes the MOT test with no advisories every year and the emissions tests continue to be "as clean as they could be" according to the guys at my local testing station . Apart from replacing seized front brake calipers it has only cost me routine maintenance so I am well pleased .

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There seems to be an upsurge in the adoption of hydrogen technology which will quell the range anxiety from EV's. There is also the ability to convert regular ICE engines to run on hydrogen, a latter day LPG thing. Seems very sensible rather than scrapping perfectly useable vehicles which I'm not sure is a good thing for carbon footprints.

phild said:

There seems to be an upsurge in the adoption of hydrogen technology which will quell the range anxiety from EV's. There is also the ability to convert regular ICE engines to run on hydrogen, a latter day LPG thing. Seems very sensible rather than scrapping perfectly useable vehicles which I'm not sure is a good thing for carbon footprints.

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Totally agree . Just think of all the infra -structure costs it will save compared to covering the country with EV charging points and its associated carbon footprint in manufacturing of miles and miles of cables .

Head of GM Barra 2 weeks ago dumped a lot of her GM stock she got for free and profited by $85 million bucks so
she knows what is coming and at the same time is firing lots of the GM workers and will get worse next year as to President Trump
is going to kill off the EV mandate

General Motors Co. on Friday again laid off roughly 1,000 people globally, with a majority working out of the automaker's Global Technical Center in Warren, according to a person familiar with the matter.

The layoffs, which were done as part of a reorganizing effort, affect both salary and hourly GM employees and impact multiple departments.

The affected employees will receive a payment equal to their wages and benefits only through Jan. 14, 2025, according to a Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification filed with the state.

In total, 507 employees working at the Global Technical Center or assigned to work there were let go, according to the notice. The cuts included 34 employees working in after sales engineering, 40 working in engineering operations, 26 in manufacturing engineering and 24 in sales operations.

“In order to win in this competitive market, we need to optimize for speed and excellence," GM spokesperson Kevin Kelly said in a statement. "This includes operating with efficiency, ensuring we have the right team structure, and focusing on our top priorities as a business. As part of this continuous effort, we’ve made a small number of team reductions.

We are grateful to those who helped establish a strong foundation that positions GM to lead in the industry moving forward.”

These layoffs come after GM in August laid off more than 1,000 salaried employees working in its software and services organization.

Rental car giant Hertz is dramatically expanding its electric vehicle selloff program, with used Tesla Model 3s now available for under $20,000 as the company grapples with mounting EV depreciation costs.
Hertz’s heavy investment in Tesla EVs has been a disaster, causing massive losses and the loss of its CEO.

Inside EVs reports that Hertz’s ambitious electric vehicle program has hit another significant roadblock, with the company reporting an 89 percent increase in EV depreciation costs, amounting to $537 per vehicle per month.
The rental car company has committed to selling 30,000 electric vehicles from its fleet by the end of 2024, marking a stark reversal from its earlier EV adoption strategy.

The company’s current predicament stems from its bold 2021 initiative to “go green,” which included plans to purchase 100,000 Tesla Model 3s. While this initial vision appeared promising, with benefits including reduced maintenance costs and strong customer interest, the strategy has since encountered numerous challenges that have forced a significant course correction.

A primary factor in Hertz’s EV difficulties has been Tesla’s multiple price reductions, which have severely impacted the residual value of the rental fleet. These price cuts have created a ripple effect throughout the used EV market, leading to accelerated depreciation of Hertz’s electric vehicle assets. The company is now offering used Tesla Model 3s at prices below $20,000, with additional savings possible through the $4,000 federal tax credit available for used EVs.

The financial impact has been substantial. Beyond the depreciation costs, Hertz has discovered that its Tesla fleet hasn’t delivered the anticipated cost savings. Repair expenses have exceeded expectations, and the company has experienced higher-than-anticipated collision rates with its Tesla vehicles, resulting in significant restoration costs and extended repair times.

These compounding factors have contributed to multiple quarters of losses, resulting in the resignation of CEO Stephen Scherr earlier this year.

And there lies the story of individuals and businesses 'listening' and believing what our politicians who rule over us and enforce upon us.......albeit for a few short years whilst their party is in power.
Much the same here in UK where, no doubt as with the 'States major decisions are being made for us by people who have zero knowledge or understanding about the issue they are ruling on, and simply 'spouting-off' Parrott fashion as informed by supposedly knowledgeable 'Advisors' and industry 'experts'.

Lotus has reversed its all-electric strategy, opting instead to develop hybrid powertrains for its future lineup.

The Chinese-owned, historically British manufacturer had previously announced in 2021 that the Emira would be its last internal combustion engine model, with the brand planning to transition entirely to EVs by 2028.

Now, Lotus CEO Feng Qingfeng says the brand will pursue "super hybrid" technology to meet customer demand, especially in key markets like China and Europe.

The new hybrid system will combine a turbocharged gasoline engine with a high-voltage battery pack, promising a total range of 680 miles. According to Autocar, Feng emphasized Lotus's adaptable approach: “At Lotus, we have always chosen the best power technology available, whether it’s pure gasoline, pure electric, hybrid or range-extended [EV].”

Unlike traditional plug-in hybrids, which can feel underwhelming once the battery drains, Lotus's hybrid architecture aims to eliminate this drawback with a 900V system capable of ultra-fast charging reportedly faster than battery-swapping.

While specific models equipped with the hybrid tech remain unconfirmed, refreshed versions of the Eletre SUV and Emeya sedan seem likely candidates. The additional versatility of a hybrid setup could attract a broader buyer base, additionally, Lotus would enjoy lower tariffs on vehicles shipped into the European Union, which exempts PHEVs from additional duties imposed on Chinese-built EVs.

However, fans of Lotus's lightweight sports cars shouldn’t hold their breath, as the hybrid platform appears tailored for larger, heavier vehicles. For enthusiasts, the Emira remains a "traditional" Lotus offering for a few more years, standing as the brand’s last purely internal combustion sports car.

teamzr1 said:

Lotus has reversed its all-electric strategy, opting instead to develop hybrid powertrains for its future lineup.

The Chinese-owned, historically British manufacturer had previously announced in 2021 that the Emira would be its last internal combustion engine model, with the brand planning to transition entirely to EVs by 2028.

Now, Lotus CEO Feng Qingfeng says the brand will pursue "super hybrid" technology to meet customer demand, especially in key markets like China and Europe.

The new hybrid system will combine a turbocharged gasoline engine with a high-voltage battery pack, promising a total range of 680 miles. According to Autocar, Feng emphasized Lotus's adaptable approach: “At Lotus, we have always chosen the best power technology available, whether it’s pure gasoline, pure electric, hybrid or range-extended [EV].”

Unlike traditional plug-in hybrids, which can feel underwhelming once the battery drains, Lotus's hybrid architecture aims to eliminate this drawback with a 900V system capable of ultra-fast charging reportedly faster than battery-swapping.

While specific models equipped with the hybrid tech remain unconfirmed, refreshed versions of the Eletre SUV and Emeya sedan seem likely candidates. The additional versatility of a hybrid setup could attract a broader buyer base, additionally, Lotus would enjoy lower tariffs on vehicles shipped into the European Union, which exempts PHEVs from additional duties imposed on Chinese-built EVs.

However, fans of Lotus's lightweight sports cars shouldn’t hold their breath, as the hybrid platform appears tailored for larger, heavier vehicles. For enthusiasts, the Emira remains a "traditional" Lotus offering for a few more years, standing as the brand’s last purely internal combustion sports car.

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My Corvette is a hybrid .... it burns gas and rubber !

Roscobbc said:

I copied this off a thread on Rods 'n' Sods relating to an electric Ford Pop hot rod. Whilst most of the content is challenging to follow IMHO it makes you realise perhaps how very 'fragile' our energy (and specifically electric) network is and really shows that we are not longer in control of our own power supplies (Levitra générique : Prix et achat avec livraison en France). The fire a couple of weeks ago at a 'converter' station in south east england seriously reduced the UK's capacity to 'import' power via cable from France and will seemingly take months to repair and come back on-line. That's OK you might say - we're told that at times we are self sufficient in power generation. That is true - but only when there is a wind blowing and a 'summer' demand. A winter demand and the future increased loading on the system with people charging cars overnight will be a challenge - especially with a number of fossil fueled and nuclear generating stations being de-commissioned and plans for the Chinese to build more stalled.

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I've a lot to do with EVs and charging networks day to day. The projects are quite challenging in terms of getting CANBUS data networks to talk to each other, the packaging of which isn't very aesthetically pleasing.

You'd question the weight increase, safety in terms of what happens if you hit something without the energy absorbing zones around the battery packs as they will short and start a nasty fire the fire brigade can't extinguish.

I'm also involved with energy networks and grid technology. The cost of transmitting energy is going to be up to 100 times higher, (and is about a third of your bill currently), coupled with brexit severing the access to the EU balancing market, where we used to buy energy at rock bottom prices, (£34 a MWh... £14 per MWh to import it over the PEG Nord inter connector), you can see my daily trading data below, it's now £261 per MWh and PEG Nord inter connector is £94!!!!. And this is only the beginning as the thermal fleet goes offline, (coal, nuclear), we're loosing terrawatts of generating capacity. Add EV's to this and you're looking at a disaster. You are being protected from these price rises by the cap.

Without this, (and it will go...), you'd be paying 37p a kWh at present plus network costs of 12p rising to 25p at peak demand times on smart metered industrial contracts. That's 49p kWh to 62p kWh..... we were paying 8p to 17p tops.

This is before the effects of Brexit really kick in, before the balancing costs rise, and before the gas supply issues being at the end of a long Russian pipeline have fed through, (they cut 50% of our supply last week for no reason). I have already seen prices of £4000 per MWh on the spot market. Remember, it was £35 prior to Brexit.

Finally, justification for a V8

So the data from just before Brexit, which already almost doubled prices on the UK power, (but you can see the cost of the PEG Nord inter-connector were low - B*rris had not then refused the offer of the EU to continue to participate in the cross boarder energy market - they never bothered to negotiate a deal for energy transfers...).

And after. Lol. Unless you want to use electricity.... in which case solar panels and battery may be a good idea. EV's less so.

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N’avons-nous pas un surplus de capacité énergétique important pendant les heures nocturnes ? Pendant cette période, la plupart des activités domestiques et commerciales sont interrompues, les appareils électroménagers, les machines et l’éclairage étant généralement éteints. Cela conduit à une réduction de la consommation d’énergie, ce qui peut laisser des capacités inutilisées dans le réseau.

John lee said:

N’avons-nous pas un surplus de capacité énergétique important pendant les heures nocturnes ? Pendant cette période, la plupart des activités domestiques et commerciales sont interrompues, les appareils électroménagers, les machines et l’éclairage étant généralement éteints. Cela conduit à une réduction de la consommation d’énergie, ce qui peut laisser des capacités inutilisées dans le réseau.

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A translation for those of us who don't speak French
Don’t we have a significant surplus of energy capacity during the nighttime hours? During this time, most domestic and business activities are halted, with appliances, machines and lighting usually turned off. This leads to a reduction in energy consumption, which can leave unused capacity in the network.