C8 or Emira

[avdb]

Contemplating either a C8 or Lotus Emira.
No Corvette dealer near Scotland is a minus for the C8.
Anyone else looking at a C8 or an alternative?

 

[Termie]

I looked at the Emira while having a deposit on a C8. I stuck with the C8 for a few reasons. I think the C8 is a better roadtrip car (something I wanted), the Emira felt more expensive for what you get (for a good V6 spec), and Lotus unfortunately doesn't have the greatest reputation for reliability.

I do think the Emira will be very good to drive, and looks great, so I understand why anyone would look at it.

 

[CaptainK]

Depends what kind of car you want really I guess. For me personally, as much as I love the Corvette brand and I think the C8 is a great looking car with a fab engine, but I could never buy the C8 for two reasons: 1) No manual gearbox option, 2) did I mention a lack of manual gearbox option? Oh, and of course the small minor thing of not being able to afford it

 

[Termie]

Depends what kind of car you want really I guess. For me personally, as much as I love the Corvette brand and I think the C8 is a great looking car with a fab engine, but I could never buy the C8 for two reasons: 1) No manual gearbox option, 2) did I mention a lack of manual gearbox option? Oh, and of course the small minor thing of not being able to afford it

That is a very good point actually. The lack of a manual may put some off the C8. It was the opposite for me, I was always going dual clutch for this car (also looked at Cayman 4.0 GTS PDK).

I'm fortunate to also have a GR Yaris for manual fun, and a generally more hardcore driving experience. The C8 is in the sports/GT car for me. I say that having not driven it yet, that is the intention though

 

[CaptainK]

That is a very good point actually. The lack of a manual may put some off the C8. It was the opposite for me, I was always going dual clutch for this car (also looked at Cayman 4.0 GTS PDK).

I'm fortunate to also have a GR Yaris for manual fun, and a generally more hardcore driving experience. The C8 is in the sports/GT car for me. I say that having not driven it yet, that is the intention though

Nice one on the GR Yaris. Some nice cars you have listed there. I'll have to keep hoping on the lottery win

 

[James Vette]

The C8 seriously doesn't have manual gearbox? I prefer auto but I'm surprised they don't offer the option.

 

[Termie]

The C8 seriously doesn't have manual gearbox? I prefer auto but I'm surprised they don't offer the option.

It does not. They moved to DCT only. Which is very good upgrade from the previous autos by all accounts, but still not a manual.

But then again, based on what I've read, by 2017 around 80% of all C7s sold were autos. As with many performance cars, everyone talks about the importance of manuals (especially motoring journalists), but the vast majority of buyers choose auto, so I can understand why they are dying out.

 

[antijam]

It's the coming trend and will become inevitable with more hybrid and electric supercars in the pipeline. You can't have a manual in an Audi R8, all Ferraris, Ford GT, any Lamborghini since the Gallardo, any McLaren or a Bugatti Chiron - just to name a few.

 

[teamzr1]

The C8 seriously doesn't have manual gearbox? I prefer auto but I'm surprised they don't offer the option.

GM gave the manual up, as today most people buying new Corvettes are waxers who cannot shift and chew gum at the same time
and if they ever hit the rev limiter, they would crap in their panties
They love (only when weather is perfect) to drive on the right (slow lane here) and a club meeting is someplace to stuff their face with food and booze, talk crap about others and then claim they are a hard core Corvette owner
Also, GM is firmly controlled in Corporate management by
fem women, and you know they are too lazy to use left leg and shift (and too busy on their cellphone) so they killed off the manual for good :-(

True story, when I was with GM engineering and the fight over the C5 design, it was dictated to rid the frame like the C4 that you had to step over to get in and out of.
The demand was to rid that, so women did not have to spread their legs getting in and out, True, not give full name but a Dave ..M . Leading C5 told me himself when he also told me we owners who raced our Corvettes were odd ones that they wanted the waxers as customers as they would not drive their Corvettes hard which reduced the GM warranty claims.

I told him to go piss up a rope . . .

 

[Roscobbc]

I'm guessing a significant reason why manufacturers are not giving the option of a manual transmission is due to the fact that 'nanny' electronics require computer controlled inputs - not so easy for vehicle electronics to manage the variables of selecting perhaps 7 ratios and a clutch. Even a conventional auto transmission with perhaps 10 ratios is limited in control terms by a torque converter - the twin clutch option (as complicated as it may seem compared with a torque converter) I'm guessing is far easier to control and won't suffer the potential 'wear and tear' issues you'll get with manual selection - theoretically all drivers will be able to extract the same straight line performance.........

 

[antijam]

Ten speed transmissions are coming into production to optimise acceleration and efficiency. Truckers may be happy to juggle ten (and more) speed manual transmissions but most car drivers are looking for fewer manual changes, not more and automatics can do changes at exactly the right revs - and quicker. Manuals are a dying breed.

 

[teamzr1]

Ten speed transmissions are coming into production to optimise acceleration and efficiency. Truckers may be happy to juggle ten (and more) speed manual transmissions but most car drivers are looking for fewer manual changes, not more and automatics can do changes at exactly the right revs - and quicker. Manuals are a dying breed.

The problem is the Hydra-Matic 10L60 10-speed automatic has been in the Camaro for like 3 years and has been nothing but problems
As it is, the more gears tranny has and more electronics the higher the cost is to the vehicle owners when Warranty is up and needing repairs

Also, it has been a problem that once the TCM (tranny controller) has learned the drive style then when going to drive it differently
the TCM limits that

Lastly, since I tune also the TCM, I see the calibration really dictates how all type of shifts are done and can make the shifts real lazy, slow and
limiting the amount of torque when needed.

 

[avdb]

I looked at the Emira while having a deposit on a C8. I stuck with the C8 for a few reasons. I think the C8 is a better roadtrip car (something I wanted), the Emira felt more expensive for what you get (for a good V6 spec), and Lotus unfortunately doesn't have the greatest reputation for reliability.

I do think the Emira will be very good to drive, and looks great, so I understand why anyone would look at it.

There are plus and minus points about each car.
I had an Elise S2 for 14 years without any problems - very reliable and cheap to own.
Agree that the C8 might be a better car for long trips. I prefer an auto gearbox and the HTC roof.
I would miss the adaptive cruise control from my Mustang for long journeys.

 

[Roscobbc]

I'm going to be rather controversial now.......all these late model high performance cars (yes, including C8's, C7's and what preceded them for the last 20 or so years) and so-called 'supercars' with all their manufacturers horse power figures, 450, 500, 600, 700 bhp etc etc. All those pub bar bragging figures. All the motoring journalists 'track' tests (not 'real life' actual on the road tests)............do you actually 'see' all that horsepower and torque that the car is supposed to have?.................................in most cases NO!.
Your vehicle electronics with its 'nanny' functions controlling so many vehicle parameters most of the time will prevent all of that rated horsepower from making its way to the rear wheels. Go back 20 year or more and the earlier-on electronic traction control simply 'cut' much of the horsepower being transmitted.......so a bit of wheelspin would usually cause the ECU to reduce power until traction was regained. Move on a few years and more sophisticated electronics gave us yaw and stabilty control. Now they control so many functions. Can tyre manufacturer provide tyres that have enough grip to transmit the advertised power of some of these vehicles (or certainly ones that would last more than a hundren miles or so.......probably not. So are you really getting all of that advertised horsepower every time you push the gas pedal to the floor? (and if you do get all that horsepower could you control it?)

 

[antijam]

I take your point Rosco. Giving a car enormous horsepower is relatively simple. Designing a car that can control and exploit that power safely is considerably more difficult - as most recent AMG Mercedes demonstrate very clearly.

 

[Termie]

I think you may be forgetting the reason the moved to a mid-engined layout.

As with many things, there is also enjoyment of engineering quality. Very few supercar owners probably do 200 mph, but they know their cars can do it and are engineered to do it.

Many of us remember maxing out out first cars, and feeling like it was shaking itself to bits at 70mph. Times have generally moved on. I can use max power on the 4WD Yaris often, but even that is very fast in the real world B roads compared to most older cars.

I am replacing an M3 Competition with a conservative 450bhp with a C8. The M3 has done days with all systems off at Car Limits, and while you can't drive like that on the road, there is plenty enjoyment to be had. Plus fairly effortless overtaking is nice.

I think we all derive enjoyment differently. I'm just happy a new NA V8 car still exists for me to enjoy.

 

[Roscobbc]

All too many high performance cars still have a 'nanny' level of system 'override' even when presumed turned off. Hats off to anyone who will drive a modern performance car with systems turned OFF to experience and learn how to deal with an 'unassisted' level of control - a good move that I suspect few owners will consider.......then perhaps wish they had when a simple road situation catches them (and the car systems) out and....off the road they go!

 

[Roscobbc]

The weight balance of the C8 gives really beneficial traction advantage over previous marques......but with a weight differential similar to an 'old school' Porsche perhaps the handling 'electronics' now have an even greater importance?

 

[Stingray]

In terms of performance and handling a modern Vette will blow older sports cars into the weeds. Base C5 had roughly the same performance as a C4 ZR1 and things have moved on a long way from there. C8 must be close to McLaren performance, even if the McL is smaller and lighter so likely to be a bit more nimble. 0-60 in around 3 seconds is quick by any standards.
Yeee-haaa!

Any of these cars will sling themselves off the road if provoked. If I recall correctly an early Jeremy Clarkson article suggested older Vettes liked spinning so much that if you parked and went shopping you'd probably get back and find your car facing the other way!

 

[teamzr1]

I'm going to be rather controversial now.......all these late model high performance cars (yes, including C8's, C7's and what preceded them for the last 20 or so years) and so-called 'supercars' with all their manufacturers horse power figures, 450, 500, 600, 700 bhp etc etc. All those pub bar bragging figures. All the motoring journalists 'track' tests (not 'real life' actual on the road tests)............do you actually 'see' all that horsepower and torque that the car is supposed to have?.................................in most cases NO!.
Your vehicle electronics with its 'nanny' functions controlling so many vehicle parameters most of the time will prevent all of that rated horsepower from making its way to the rear wheels. Go back 20 year or more and the earlier-on electronic traction control simply 'cut' much of the horsepower being transmitted.......so a bit of wheelspin would usually cause the ECU to reduce power until traction was regained. Move on a few years and more sophisticated electronics gave us yaw and stabilty control. Now they control so many functions. Can tyre manufacturer provide tyres that have enough grip to transmit the advertised power of some of these vehicles (or certainly ones that would last more than a hundren miles or so.......probably not. So are you really getting all of that advertised horsepower every time you push the gas pedal to the floor? (and if you do get all that horsepower could you control it?)

Good example of what the controllers can be done to limit performance under many different conditions and as I mentioned having an auto tranny allows GM to even more control of limiting HP/TQ by simply controlling when and how much performance is allowed

Whereas having a manual tranny this cannot be done as this 2012 C6 with A6 tranny

Looking at max torque in the controller calibration allowed depending on engine RPM and what gear is engaged
In this case if looking at when the engine is at 1,500 RPM and tranny in second gear, GM set max torque to only 284 ft/lb



Now in tuning the controller for example I allowed 20% more torque to be generated so same RPM and 2nd gear now allowed 341 ft/lb torque

Add the total there are several torque tables for engine, auto tranny and the newer eLSD rear end the C7 and C8 has
So a main reason I would only want a manual tranny as there is no control for that or if forced with an auto tranny to limit within the tunes
how much the controllers can dictate max performance