To Hell and Back but a good ending

[teamzr1]

Think you have a problem getting a C8 in the UK ?

Tom who is serving our country in the US Army based in Germany has spent like over 1 year to order and buy a C8 HTC with Z51 options
He was getting the run around with a fricking dealer here in the USA, Little F'ers
Melvin and I have been working with Tom all this time about all the crap and runaround he got,
but finally it all came together and his 2021 C8 is sitting at the dock in Europe sitting in the rain :-(
He should have his C8 very shortly and we salute his drive not to give up on his dream of owning a C8 while serving to protect our freedoms

Here is some of what Tom went through from today, working back all this year

Hi JR,

Thanks to both of you for your support!
To answer your questions, here goes:

I ordered a 2021 hard top convertible in Ceramic Metallic Grey with yellow calipers and yellow seat belts, 2LT with Z51 pack and magneto shocks, it was built last week of August.
The car is American spec, LHD. Only the Brits drive on the wrong side of the road
Just found out that the car is in port and should be delivered on Tuesday morning!

I asked the dealer not to do any prep at all because I'll take it directly to my detailer here in Stuttgart for paint correction and then he'll take straight over to the wrap guy for PPF. He's also going to wrap the top in black and the mirrors in yellow. If all goes well, I will finally have it back by the 10th or 11th, fingers crossed.....Just in time for Christmas and to put it in the garage for the winter
I've already ordered a new set of wheels because the stock choices were just not good on this generation in my opinion. I'll end up using the stock wheels as my track wheels.

As for OnStar, I'm not sure it works over here so i haven't signed up for it yet. There is a GM dealer within about an hour from here that just sent their techs out to get C8 qualified. Another American who brought his car with him did most of the legwork with those guys and they are set-up to do all of the TSB's, updates and services. Infact, they found that 2 of his wheels are bad and he will be getting some new ones under warranty!

More to come once I get my hands on it!

Take care, Tom

--------------------------------------------------------
JR and Melvin

Just wanted to give you an update as of 12/1/21
MacMulkin finally relented and sold me the car!!

It seems that another guy over in Korea was in the same predicament as me but being that he works in the Lawyer's office on base, was able to get all the way up to one of the legal folks on the GM team and got things sorted out and they called MacMulkin to let them know that they wouldn't get any grief from GM if they sold cars to military folks. So, indirectly, he was able to help my situation too.

Car should be getting unloaded in Bremerhaven this week and trucked down to me next week sometime!
I'll be sure to send you guys some photos soon as it shows up!!

Talk soon,
Tom
------------------------
Hi Tom,

I understand. I did a quick check on Autoscout24.de and saw a number of cars there. Most dealers will take the VAT form, but you have to go through extra steps.
Another thought is the Canadians. Is there still a Canadian PX over there? I know they had a small outlet for the Brits, Canadians and other NATO forces at Ramstein.
We used to be able to buy (US or Canadian spec) cars through them and get the VAT taken out.
As far as the tune goes, maybe JR or Geiger can help out. I know it is tough, but Geiger is an authorized US Car dealer for Europe, so maybe he can upload a US tune for you if you buy through him.
Just a few thoughts. Good luck. I know this is frustrating.

TTYL, Melvin
---------------------------------
Hi JR,
Thanks to both of you for your support!
To answer your questions, here goes:

I ordered a 2021 hard top convertible in Ceramic Metallic Grey with yellow calipers and yellow seat belts, 2LT with Z51 pack and magneto shocks, it was built last week of August.
The car is American spec, LHD. Only the Brits drive on the wrong side of the road
Just found out that the car is in port and should be delivered on Tuesday morning!

I asked the dealer not to do any prep at all because I'll take it directly to my detailer here in Stuttgart for paint correction and then he'll take straight over to the wrap guy for PPF.
He's also going to wrap the top in black and the mirrors in yellow. If all goes well, I will finally have it back by the 10th or 11th, fingers crossed
Just in time for Christmas and to put it in the garage for the winter

I've already ordered a new set of wheels because the stock choices were just not good on this generation in my opinion. I'll end up using the stock wheels as my track wheels.
As for OnStar, I'm not sure it works over here so i haven't signed up for it yet. There is a GM dealer within about an hour from here that just sent their techs out to get C8 qualified.

Another American who brought his car with him did most of the legwork with those guys and they are set-up to do all of the TSB's, updates and services. In fact, they found that 2 of his wheels are bad and he will be getting some new ones under warranty!
More to come once I get my hands on it!

Take care,
Tom
------------------------------

Mr. Thompson,

It's been over a week since my last email and I've received no reply from you or your staff. I was hoping to hear back that you'd reviewed my situation and/or decided to contact GM yourself for further guidance.
I have no way of knowing whether your non-response was intentional or simply an oversight. I would like to think that it was simply an oversight.

I'm being completely honest when I say that this has been one of the worst experiences I've ever had and I work in customer service! I've never had to jump through so many hoops nor have I ever had to prove residence and current ownership of a vehicle prior to purchasing another one.
Your salesman's interpretation of GM’s export policy is completely wrong. There is no way that GM intends that policy to be used to prevent US Military or government civilians and contractors from purchasing their products.

He is essentially saying that if a member of the previously mentioned group gets an assignment to go overseas during the process of buying a car that GM would not allow the sale to go through.
And we all know that is not the case and that GM does not have a rule against selling vehicles to members of the military when they have a website dedicated to giving them discounts(www.gmmilitarydiscount.com).

At the very beginning of our conversation last year, it was mentioned to me that your team could sell me a used car without issue. I'm not sure how selling a used car would be any different but if there's a way for you to use this car as a program/dealer car for a few months or miles,
I would still be amenable to that and agree to purchase the car at the agreed upon MSRP price. The lienholder, Bank of America, has already contacted your team and supports this transaction completely.

Again, If I were going to do break rules or do something underhanded, I can assure you that it would not be over a car.

Having said that and due to not hearing back from you or your team, I have decided to reach out to GM myself for further guidance.
I will of course keep you and your staff on the CC line so that I can continue to remain open and honest with any correspondence as I have been from the beginning. I welcome any feedback and/or consolation you feel is warranted.

Respectfully, Tom
--------------------------------
Tom Tisdale
Project Manager
EUCOM J33
Subject: Re: MacMulkin Chevrolet - Tisdale Corvette

 

[James Vette]

I thought people serving got higher on the wait list? I agree with him that LHD is the best.

 

[teamzr1]

Last part

Mark,

Thank you for providing that policy because it confirms that this situation does not fall into that category. That policy is to prevent foreign people or people living and working in foreign markets from deliberately buying a car that is not made for their market and illegally exporting to their country with the intention of reselling it. I am not attempting to export this car nor am I planning to resale this vehicle in a market it was not intended for. In all honesty and with all due respect, I think that you are misinterpreting the policy you quoted.

From the very beginning I have been upfront and honest with you about my situation, perhaps to my detriment. I have never said that I plan to export the car nor would I refuse to register and title the car in Colorado. In fact, my last email to your team said exactly the opposite.
In the last year, I have satisfied every requirement that was asked of me:

- Prove you have Colorado license, done.
- Prove you own a registered vehicle in Colorado, done...

I don't know why this was a requirement but I satisfied that as well.
Is it a requirement to already own a car before purchasing a GM product?
Does everyone have to do this?

- Prove you have a residence in Colorado, done.
- Provide a down payment for a waiting list, done.
- Provide a new Colorado License, done.
- Agree to register and title the car in Colorado, done.

I have agreed and fully intend to do this. And since you don't seem to want to recognize that I have already given full and legal POA to someone to act on my behalf, I will agree to use your registration company and pay whatever fees that may entail and/or send the car to Colorado if need be.
You didn't ask me to prove that I am a Disabled Veteran but I would be happy to do this as well.

Mark, I've done everything you've asked of me to try and I’ve tried to show you that I am honest and trustworthy. In fact, please pull my credit report. Both banks pulled my credit this week and were able to confirm that I am an American citizen with a valid American address. If you are unable to do that, I will ask Ms. Lopez from Bank of America if she is allowed to share that information to you with my permission. She has already offered to speak with you on my behalf to try and clear up this misunderstanding.

Thanks, Tom

From: Mark Makarewicz <markm@thompsonauto.net>
Subject: Re: MacMulkin Chevrolet

Tom, We made it very clear from our initial emails about you registering in the US and not Exporting. You proceeded to agree to have the car registered in CO and not Exporting your car.
Below is a copy of a section in our dealer agreement with General Motors. Our hands are tied. I would love to sell you the car but we are not allowed to per General Motors rules and regulations.
Please confirm the address you want your $2000 deposit check returned to.
Sent: Thursday, September 2, 2021 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: MacMulkin Chevrolet

Mark Makarewicz
MacMulkin Chevrolet

From: Thomas Tisdale <tomtisdale@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 2, 2021 11:03 AM
Good morning all,

Todd and Adrian thanks again for the photos and clearing up the gmail piece. Also thanks for the explanation about the registering paperwork. Along those lines, I'll try and explain my position one last time.
While it's true in this case that my DL matches the home that I still own in Colorado, the permanent residence or home of record that was mentioned at some point is really only used in case I get killed or fired. It just gives the gov't a geo location to send me and my junk to.

To be honest, I'm in-different as to what address you use. If you need to use my Colorado address for your side of the paperwork, by all means do that, it won't make a difference when I register and title the car here on base with the military because it's not guaranteed that I'll move back to Colorado.
My next assignment may be in Nebraska or Maryland or somewhere else altogether, I have no way of knowing. I file my income tax in Colorado only because that was the last place I lived but since I'm on a Military contract, they don’t collect any tax from me.

I've also attached my current title and registration for my HellCat. Once I move back to the US, which ever state that may be, I'll take that title/registration document along with the COO to the local DMV to register and pay any taxes at that time. This is what I keep trying to explain, I'm not trying to get out of paying taxes, I'll always have to do that at some point.
Doing it the way your team is proposing will add quite a bit of time and additional steps such as getting a stateside insurance policy and paying for plates that I'll never use.
Once I have the purchase order for this vehicle, I can insure, title and register the car within one day, here on base, no muss, no fuss.
USAG registration Process that I have to follow here:
Caution-https://home.army.mil/stuttgart/application/files/5315/7580/8983/Registering_a_New_US_Spec.docx.pdf < Caution-https://home.army.mil/stuttgart/application/files/5315/7580/8983/Registering_a_New_US_Spec.docx.pdf >

That being said, if there is no way around this and the car absolutely has to be registered in Colorado,
I do have someone with full power of attorney who can take care of the actions needed so your registration company won't be necessary.
______________________________

From: Todd Larocque <toddl@thompsonauto.net>
Cc: JOSHUA BEAULIEU <CORVETTEFUNDINGDIRECTOR@GMAIL.COM>

As requested I can get your paperwork set up listing Bank of America as the Lien holder. The Purchase and sale agreement will show a loan of $40,000 through BOA and a down payment of $45,760.00 being made to MacMulkin Chevrolet. ( $2000.00 deposit already in house plus and additional $43,760.00 made by wire transfer.)

Here are the wire instructions for your payment of $43,760.00

MacMulkin Chevrolet
From: Lopez, Susan - 2 <susan.lopez@bofa.com>

Hello everyone,
Prior to funding of Mr. Tisdale’s loan, we the bank will need to see and approve a copy of the purchase order with Bank of America listed as lienholder as well as a copy of the front and back of the Certificate of Origin listing Mr. Tisdale as the owner and Bank of America s lienholder. Once we have received and approved these documents, we can have Mr. Tisdale finalize his loan with our banking center.

The disbursement of the loan proceeds which include the additional funds added by Mr. Tisdale will be sent in the form of a cashier check (unless specified otherwise by your dealership). If you require wire transfer of funds, Mr. Tisdale will need wiring instructions to provide to the banking center.

Bank of America understands that Mr. Tisdale is stationed overseas and that there will be no stateside title work completed at this time. His registration of said vehicle will be done once the automobile arrives in Germany. He will then register on a military installation. Once he returns stateside, he will need to visit his local DMV or tax office to complete title work. The state in turn will request the original MSO and Bill of Sale from the bank.
***The original MSO (certificate of Origin and Bill of Sale) needs to be sent to the bank as we are the lienholder.

L. Susan Lopez Military Bank-Overseas Division

------ Original Message ------

Received: 10:12 AM EDT, 09/01/2021
All,
I received the email below from someone claiming to be from your dealership however, the email came from a gmail account...
HELLO TOM THIS IS JOSH FROM MACMULKIN CHEVROLET. I RECEIVED THE RESPONSE YOU SENT TODD TODAY IN REGARDS TO THE STEPS MOVING FORWARD. IS THERE A WAY YOU COULD GIVE ME A CALL SO WE CAN GO OVER THE NEXT STEPS AND SOME QUESTIONS I HAVE? 603-888-1121 EXT 216 WHEN WILL YOU BE BACK IN THE STATES, MORE IMPORTANTLY IN COLORADO TO COMPLETE THE REGISTRATION?

I SEE YOU WILL BE USING B.O.A. FOR FINANCING THE 40,000 AND CASH FOR THE REST. DO YOU KNOW WHEN WE CAN EXPECT THE CERTIFIED CHECK/WIRE FOR THE REST?
I WILL BE HERE UNTIL 6PM EST. OR CAN BE REACHED BY EMAIL
I did not respond to this email nor did I call the number listed above.

The person also removed Ms. Lopez from the conversation so I have added her back, please do not remove her again.
To give you an update, I have deposited a certified check from Service Credit Union (my main bank and previous choice for the loan) and deposited that into my account at Bank of America today. BoFA has a 5 (business) day hold policy which means the funds will be available next Thursday.

Ms. Lopez has already approved my loan so now we are just waiting on the paper work from the dealership, Purchase order, Certificate of Origin, etc.
The most expedient way to make payment seems to be a wire transfer, same as with the Good faith money for the waiting list.
According to the tracker on your webpage, the car has been shipped so maybe it's on its way already.
Once you receive it, I would like to see detailed photos of the interior/exterior and underneath of the car. I've read a few posts about the cars getting scratched up underneath the doors and front spoiler.

Ms. Lopez, could you explain the bank's position in regards to the registration and title questions? We have to be able to find some understanding about this, there just seems to be a disconnect or misunderstanding that I just can seem to clear up.

Thanks in advance, Tom
________________________________

From: Todd Larocque <toddl@thompsonauto.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2021 11:30 AM

Hi Tom,
Please send me a new picture of your drivers license. The copy we have on file expired in Feb.
Your current balance due before taxes and state fees is $83,760.00
Taxes and state fees will be paid by you directly at your DMV. We need all cars registered before they can be picked up or shipped.

 

[teamzr1]

I thought people serving got higher on the wait list? I agree with him that LHD is the best.

Those serving and Veterans get special pricing from GM, but this deals with stupid rules and such in Europe
Interesting our guys can go over there to protect those in Europe but are treated to rules to limit cars being bought
from the USA and importing into Europe

 

[Roscobbc]

Those serving and Veterans get special pricing from GM, but this deals with stupid rules and such in Europe
Interesting our guys can go over there to protect those in Europe but are treated to rules to limit cars being bought
from the USA and importing into Europe

Seem to recall (and I don't know if this still applies) but I believed that US servicemen could get their vehicles (new or used) shipped to European (and UK) bases (and returned home) at no cost to the individual. If they chose to leave the vehicles behind when they had finished their 'tour of duty' whoever bought the car would have to pay apropriate taxes etc comparable to what would have been paid if the car had officially imported. Its a sad thing that perhaps European and UK military staff and 'veterans' do not get an appropriate level of respect from their fellow countrymen when returning home (and perhaps considerably less than USA servicemen when returning) - as for 'Protecting those in Europe' - isn't that a two way thing and of benefit to both Europe and the 'States? - yes the USA is sending all sorts of military aid and personnel etc etc over to what were (and what could be once again) potential 'flash points' (and hopefully most of us are thankful for that). The reality it that these European 'forward outposts' is that they help keep the potential 'enemy' from your very own doors so too - so very much of a two way beneficial arrangement.

 

[monty]

If a USA serviceman wants to sell a car that they have brought over to the UK to a UK citizen then the USA service person has to pay the UK government duties, it is illegal for them to sell them otherwise and both parties can face fine/jail if not done that way, how do I know, I have been through the whole process which puts a lot of people off buying cars that way. If it’s not brand new then the vehicle has to be valued and then the tax duties are worked out from that value, this can take a while if not done before hand, which in most cases is not due to the fact that unless the service person know exactly when they are going back and that they definitely want to sell their vehicle then why would the pay out a load of money to the British government. interestingly enough they do not pay the British road tax and get cheap petrol on their military base, also the guy I purchased a car from never displayed a front number plate and never got pulled by police.

 

[Stingray]

If a USA serviceman wants to sell a car that they have brought over to the UK to a UK citizen then the USA service person has to pay the UK government duties, it is illegal for them to sell them otherwise and both parties can face fine/jail if not done that way, how do I know, I have been through the whole process which puts a lot of people off buying cars that way.

Back in the day when I first got interested in American cars I'd see a lot of them near the Lakenheath and Mildenhall air bases in Norfolk and contemplated buying a car over there, but it never happened.

Around the same time Budweiser (Anheiser Busch - USA) and Budweiser (Budvar - Czech) were engaged in a trademark dispute over sale of "Budweiser" beer in UK. Anheiser Busch had registered their UK trademark for beer in 1976 but Budvar had managed to achieve its own registration in 1989 on the basis that Anheiser Busch hadn't actually been selling any "Budweiser" in the UK. Under UK law trademarks must be used regularly in use in order to remain valid.

Anyway, Anheiser Busch tried to argue their Budweiser beer HAD been sold in UK for many years because it was widely available at and from the American air bases. That argument didn't fly in court and Budvar have been able to continue selling their beer. The dispute rumbles on in UK and in other countries. There's a Court of Appeal decision from 2012 on this link. Court of Appeal decision in Budweiser trademark case

In summary, stuff on and around American air bases isn't really "in the UK" - whether that stuff is cars, beer or anything else!

 

[Chuffer]

Back in the day when I first got interested in American cars I'd see a lot of them near the Lakenheath and Mildenhall air bases in Norfolk and contemplated buying a car over there, but it never happened.

Around the same time Budweiser (Anheiser Busch - USA) and Budweiser (Budvar - Czech) were engaged in a trademark dispute over sale of "Budweiser" beer in UK. Anheiser Busch had registered their UK trademark for beer in 1976 but Budvar had managed to achieve its own registration in 1989 on the basis that Anheiser Busch hadn't actually been selling any "Budweiser" in the UK. Under UK law trademarks must be used regularly in use in order to remain valid.

Anyway, Anheiser Busch tried to argue their Budweiser beer HAD been sold in UK for many years because it was widely available at and from the American air bases. That argument didn't fly in court and Budvar have been able to continue selling their beer. The dispute rumbles on in UK and in other countries. There's a Court of Appeal decision from 2012 on this link. Court of Appeal decision in Budweiser trademark case

In summary, stuff on and around American air bases isn't really "in the UK" - whether that stuff is cars, beer or anything else!

The same applies to US personnel on UK bases that cause death by dangerous driving on our roads . They claim `Diplomatic Immunity ` and flee the country to avoid UK law . Just ask my neighbour how the feel about the death of their nephew on his motorbike outside RAF Croughton . Makes me f `in seath .

 

[Roscobbc]

Back in the late '70's I was 'repping' the East Anglia area area. Part of my brief was calling on what what were then called DOE PSA offcies and depots (Department of the Environment - Property Services Agency) - and these people looked after maintenance of the USA airbases, having an on-site presence. Back then a smart suit and briefcase would get you on the bases with no problems. Whilst is was a bit like being in seld contained another country on the bases with lots of interesting aircraft flying around the car on the base were generally very boring and typically American compacts, like Pinto's and other 4 banger sedans, Honda;s, Toyota's etc. Very rarely would a muscle car or Vette be seen.......disappointing really

 

[James Vette]

That's disappointing.

 

[Chuffer]

Back in the late '70's I was 'repping' the East Anglia area area. Part of my brief was calling on what what were then called DOE PSA offcies and depots (Department of the Environment - Property Services Agency) - and these people looked after maintenance of the USA airbases, having an on-site presence. Back then a smart suit and briefcase would get you on the bases with no problems. Whilst is was a bit like being in seld contained another country on the bases with lots of interesting aircraft flying around the car on the base were generally very boring and typically American compacts, like Pinto's and other 4 banger sedans, Honda;s, Toyota's etc. Very rarely would a muscle car or Vette be seen.......disappointing really

Back in the early 80`s I worked for Anglian Water Authority in the Water Supply Engineers Department . Amongst other things we looked after water towers some of which where right next to RAF Alconbury and another at RAF Wyton , great for aircraft watching from the roof of an 80 foot high water tower ! But the most interesting was the `nest` of 4 interconnected steel sectional Braithewaite Tanks on about 70 ft high legs in the middle of Molesworth Airbase that was operated by the USAF and was a huge storage compound for redundant miltary aircraft of every kind . Totally fascinating place . I used to turn up at the security post , flash my ID to an automatic rifle toting `Snowball ` and drive in . The Water towers were at the far end of the old airbase which involved a blast down the concrete runway in my Vauxhaul 2000 to get there . Always a hoot !!
The base was a WW2 bomber base and the tanks were the originals built with thin grade steel to conserve steel production for the war effort . They used to bend a sway slightly in the wind which was a tad un-nerving when you were on the roof !

 

[Roscobbc]

RAF Alconbury. The Lockheed U2 spy planes (like the one Gary Powers was shot down over Russia in the early 60's during the Cuban missile crisis) operated from here. If you were very lucky you might have seen one land at Alconbury as the very end of the main runway then butted on to the A1. With a stall speed only 10% less than its operation speed of 475 mph it was very tricky to land. To see the runway lights individually strobe down the 1.5 mile runway in a few seconds on a misty winters night was magical.

 

[Chuffer]

RAF Alconbury. The Lockheed U2 spy planes (like the one Gary Powers was shot down over Russia in 1962 during the Cuban missile crisis) operated from here. If you were very lucky you might have seen one land at Alconbury as the very end of the main runway then butted on to the A1. With a stall speed only 10% less than its operation speed of 475 mph it was very tricky to land. To see the runway lights individually strobe down the 1.5 mile runway in a few seconds on a misty winters night was magical.

 

[Chuffer]

I thought he was shot down in 1960 , but who`s counting ? I remember as kid hearing all the adults talking about the Cuban Missile Crisis and being worried that WW3 would break out !

 

[Stingray]

With a stall speed only 10% less than its operation speed of 475 mph it was very tricky to land.

Sounds like teamzr1's Corvette.....

 

[Chuffer]

Sounds like teamzr1's Corvette.....

But with less tech in the cabin .

 

[teamzr1]

When covering at 180 MPH for 90 miles taking only 30 minutes through the mountains by yourself without another person as a navigator
you need all those gadgets to track your speed, know when blind turns or S turns are coming to judge what speeds to get through them without putting yourself over a mountain pass

I have to judge all that while driving and lose maybe 10 pounds of weight just in sweat
While keep watching coolant, air, oil, tranny and rear end temps

Here is the laptop reports on screen using a program I wrote to track it all, I have to monitor at the same time as driving, so I know down to a second when hitting the finish line

Corvettes are not understood, they are designed to haul ass when the proper changes are made.

 

[Chuffer]

I was actually joking !!!!