Ethanol Protection

[Chuffer]

Has anyone been running older Corvettes ( thinking C3 here ) with Millers EPS Ethanol Protection in their tank ? Interested to hear how good it is and how the car runs.

 

[Chris Sale]

I have been using Millers VSP / VSPe in my '64 ever since unleaded petrol was phased out. VSP was the initial product, designed to protect against valve seat wear and give a small octane boost. VSPe was introduced when Ethanol started to appear, same as VSP with the addition of Ethanol protection. My total mileage since starting to use VSP is now around 80,000 and I have not noticed any ethanol-related problems. I cannot comment on the effectiveness of the octane boost as I did not have a problem with knocking before starting to use VSP.

However, I am quite careful regarding the petrol I use. I used to use Shell V-Power whenever possible until about 6 years ago when I discovered that it contained Ethanol. Since then I have been using BP Ultimate, which to the best of my knowledge does not have Ethanol in my part of the UK (Shropshire). In France for the annual Le Mans trip, I use whatever Premium petrol I can find when the tank nears empty.

Chris Sale
'64 Coupe

 

[kentvette]

Chris (above) had told me some years ago that he used Millers VSP. I didn't need an Octane booster and at the time there was little or no ethanol in the fuel I used. But the recent increase in the amount of ethanol regularly put into fuels here in France has made me re-think the additive question. The result is that I now use Millers EPS. It has been tested by the FBHVC and found to be effective at combating the effects of ethanol. As far as performance is concerned, I have noticed no difference. I does get a bit pricey and unfortunately Millers do not offer it in larger containers (unlike VSP), but I think it is worth it to afford the risk of disintegrating fuel system components.

 

[Chuffer]

I am only interested in the protection aspect against the adverse effects of ethanol . Octane boosting is not the issue as my 1980 C3 runs happily ok on 95 RON . I guess it`s a choice of either paying out to buy regular amounts of Millers to add to bog standard petrol or spend more per litre on BP Ultimate or similar ethanol free where you can find it and not have the faff of carrying about bottles of Millers to mix in each fill up.
It still baffles me how some brands and grades of fuel have ethanol and some don`t , and parts of UK have it some don`t . It`s about as contradictory as the governments Covid regulations ! Don`t start me off on that one

 

[Chris Sale]

I completely agree that the confusion regarding which brands of petrol have ethanol, and the regional differences, are frustrating!

The reason why I continue to use VSPe rather than EPS is that VSPe includes valve seat protection, as I still have the original valve seats in my engine. I should also have made clear that when I said I had not noticed any ethanol-related problems, I was referring only to ethanol-related corrosion/deterioration problems. Unfortunately the additives have no effect on the boil-off and vapour lock problems caused by the lowered boiling point of petrol with ethanol.

At the start VSP was only available in single-shot bottles (one bottle per tank fill) which meant that on Le Mans trips I had to start off with about 8 bottles of the stuff. They switched to multi-shot bottles a few years ago, much more convenient.

Chris Sale
'64 Coupe

 

[kentvette]

Chris, maybe you could ship a case of VSP over here before you travel - you could make up the box with some of Liz's luggage - that way freeing up all that space in the back!

 

[Mad4slalom]

Chris, maybe you could ship a case of VSP over here before you travel - you could make up the box with some of Liz's luggage - that way freeing up all that space in the back!

Just been looking to buy an additive for my 72. My question is, Can it hurt to put vspe in the fuel even though being a rebuilt engine I probably dont need the lead for valve seat protection but can buy multishot container so more cost effective. Or would folk just suggest the Eps. Thanks

 

[Roscobbc]

I'm not totally convinced about all this additive being added to 'modern' fuels - wondering if its simply down to the Ethanol content in the fuel 'finding-out' leaks, degrading seals, gaskets and other plastic/rubber items before the 'ordinary' petrol. Perhaps a problem was going to occur anyway and the Ethanol make it occur earlier?. My experience is that when supposedly Ethanol related issues happen - when subsequently addressed with currently available an 'correct' OEM rated replacements the 'issue' goes away. Reminds me of the major issues unleaded fuels were going to cause us - everyone was in panic. "my engine is going to be ruined" etc etc - the problems didn't really materialise did they? OK so a few 'A' series powered cars like older Mini's and Moggy Minor's suffered knackered-out valves, but they were most likely knackered-out before using un-leaded fuel. Sensible folk simply 'knocked-back' ignition timing a couple of degrees and life continued much as before - as it will after Ethanol........

 

[Mad4slalom]

I'm not totally convinced about all this additive being added to 'modern' fuels - wondering if its simply down to the Ethanol content in the fuel 'finding-out' leaks, degrading seals, gaskets and other plastic/rubber items before the 'ordinary' petrol. Perhaps a problem was going to occur anyway and the Ethanol make it occur earlier?. My experience is that when supposedly Ethanol related issues happen - when subsequently addressed with currently available an 'correct' OEM rated replacements the 'issue' goes away. Reminds me of the major issues unleaded fuels were going to cause us - everyone was in panic. "my engine is going to be ruined" etc etc - the problems didn't really materialise did they? OK so a few 'A' series powered cars like older Mini's and Moggy Minor's suffered knackered-out valves, but they were most likely knackered-out before using un-leaded fuel. Sensible folk simply 'knocked-back' ignition timing a couple of degrees and life continued much as before - as it will after Ethanol........

Hmmm when I built my beach buggy 4 years ago i renewed all fuel pipes with gates ethanlol proof pipes and have never had any problems, though I make sure i run it up every 3/4 weeks through the winter. The vette has been body off restored 6 years ago with all new pipes , lines and hoses, the previous owner has run it since then with I presume no problems, so maybe all is well. But as a new owner you feel you want to do the best you can to avoid problems arising. So do we assume that All additives, are a bit of a con and therefore unnecesary.? I’m talking diesel injector cleaner, egr / maf sensor cleaner, and a host of other available things. I wonder if owners that have been using an ethanol protection and have not had any issues would suddenly stop using it . I guess its down to each to their own and what they feel comfortable with. Personally i dont think it will do any harm with the bonus that it may help, still not sure which one to buy tho

 

[kentvette]

I'm not totally convinced about all this additive being added to 'modern' fuels - wondering if its simply down to the Ethanol content in the fuel 'finding-out' leaks, degrading seals, gaskets and other plastic/rubber items before the 'ordinary' petrol. Perhaps a problem was going to occur anyway and the Ethanol make it occur earlier?. My experience is that when supposedly Ethanol related issues happen - when subsequently addressed with currently available an 'correct' OEM rated replacements the 'issue' goes away. Reminds me of the major issues unleaded fuels were going to cause us - everyone was in panic. "my engine is going to be ruined" etc etc - the problems didn't really materialise did they? OK so a few 'A' series powered cars like older Mini's and Moggy Minor's suffered knackered-out valves, but they were most likely knackered-out before using un-leaded fuel. Sensible folk simply 'knocked-back' ignition timing a couple of degrees and life continued much as before - as it will after Ethanol........

I might have felt the same way, were I not familiar with the race team experience at Le Mans. When they came over some years ago (C5R era I think), they found that the fuel supplied by the ACO had a high ethanol content. It took only a day or so to "corrode" the fuel system on the cars. They had to redesign the fuel system completely to run the ACO fuel. Later of course, high E content became the norm in WEC and IMSA racing, so everyone has to run E compatible systems now.

Interestingly our current "metal" car a Skoda, was new in 2016. At the time of buying I asked about E fuel, assuming the dealer would say it was OK. But no, while it is possible to use it, Skoda do not recommend using E fuel if at all possible. So, I don't.

The Corvette has a neoprene type lining in the fuel tank (from '78 on they all do), so I'm certainly not risking it with that. The FBHVC did run extensive tests on additives, coming from teh viewpoint that they may not work, or be necessary. But they found conclusivley that EPS worked.

Just been looking to buy an additive for my 72. My question is, Can it hurt to put vspe in the fuel even though being a rebuilt engine I probably dont need the lead for valve seat protection but can buy multishot container so more cost effective. Or would folk just suggest the Eps. Thanks

I don't see it would do any harm, but if you don't need the octane boosted, then I'd stick with EPS. That's what I did. That said, I have been occasionally putting 98 fuel in the car if the station doesn't have non E 95. I've found that as the timing on mine is slightly "aggressive", it does seem to prefer it! However, at the moment its cheaper to add 98 and EPS than use 95 and VSPe!

 

[Mad4slalom]

I might have felt the same way, were I not familiar with the race team experience at Le Mans. When they came over some years ago (C5R era I think), they found that the fuel supplied by the ACO had a high ethanol content. It took only a day or so to "corrode" the fuel system on the cars. They had to redesign the fuel system completely to run the ACO fuel. Later of course, high E content became the norm in WEC and IMSA racing, so everyone has to run E compatible systems now.

Interestingly our current "metal" car a Skoda, was new in 2016. At the time of buying I asked about E fuel, assuming the dealer would say it was OK. But no, while it is possible to use it, Skoda do not recommend using E fuel if at all possible. So, I don't.

The Corvette has a neoprene type lining in the fuel tank (from '78 on they all do), so I'm certainly not risking it with that. The FBHVC did run extensive tests on additives, coming from teh viewpoint that they may not work, or be necessary. But they found conclusivley that EPS worked.



I don't see it would do any harm, but if you don't need the octane boosted, then I'd stick with EPS. That's what I did. That said, I have been occasionally putting 98 fuel in the car if the station doesn't have non E 95. I've found that as the timing on mine is slightly "aggressive", it does seem to prefer it! However, at the moment its cheaper to add 98 and EPS than use 95 and VSPe!

Thanks for that, opie oils have eps so will get som in the vette and the buggy too

 

[Chuffer]

Thanks Kentvette for your further input . I was not aware that 1978 onwards Vettes had neoprene lined tanks . Certainly don`t want that degrading on top of everything else
This really gets more of a minefield by the minute ! I had also started to ponder what the long term effects of ethanol is having on all our modern daily drivers` and it looks like we may need to be as concerned about them as our classics . All this hassle over a piffling % of glorified vegetable oil in all our petrol to dupe everyone into thinking it will help save the planet , help governments ease their carbon footprint consciences and keep the greenies happy !
What will happen come 2030 if Barmy Boris gets his way and those of us not driving glorified golf buggies are are being charged £20 per litre for some gnat`s pi**
concoction they will call petrol for us to keep cars on the road that can travel further than lamp two posts without a re charge !

 

[Roscobbc]

I was looking at a map the other day (annoying I can't recall what area I was looking at) saw a site title 'Synthetic fuel manufacturing and refining plant' - wonder what that was all about?

 

[Chuffer]

I was looking at a map the other day (annoying I can't recall what area I was looking at) saw a site title 'Synthetic fuel manufacturing and refining plant' - wonder what that was all about?

Probably some top secret establishment that produces 105 Octane fuel for Corvettes using boiled pigs blood , bat wings and a liberal sprinkling of moon dust
By the way , I have just bitten the bullet and ordered a job lot of EPS direct from Millers ( worked out cheaper than Amazon UK even with their free delivery ) . I will soon have so many bottles in the back of the C3 , I will look like a boot leg booze runner !

 

[Mad4slalom]

Probably some top secret establishment that produces 105 Octane fuel for Corvettes using boiled pigs blood , bat wings and a liberal sprinkling of moon dust
By the way , I have just bitten the bullet and ordered a job lot of EPS direct from Millers ( worked out cheaper than Amazon UK even with their free delivery ) . I will soon have so many bottles in the back of the C3 , I will look like a boot leg booze runner !

Is the eps a fuel stabiliser as well as an ethanol protector? Saw some millers espv in halfords today and that doesnt say its a stabiliser. Ie stops gum and varnish from stale fuel.
I had som pov fuel stabiliser from frosts several years ago for a bike so maybe worth putting some of that in too.

 

[SESH]

I did a survey of fuel companies a short while ago and the only one that confirmed that their premium fuel didn't have ethanol was Esso. Even though when you use the pump it says E5 on the nozzle. All the others said it contained ethanol. Consequently I now only use Esso Supreme.

 

[Chuffer]

I did a survey of fuel companies a short while ago and the only one that confirmed that their premium fuel didn't have ethanol was Esso. Even though when you use the pump it says E5 on the nozzle. All the others said it contained ethanol. Consequently I now only use Esso Supreme.

So why do BP websites state that BP Ultimate contains no ethanol except in the south west of the UK ? Is this more Fake News ??????
You are lucky if you have regular access to Esso . There are only two Esso fuel stations showing for the whole of Northamptonshire , neither of which are anywhere near where I live

 

[Mad4slalom]

I did a survey of fuel companies a short while ago and the only one that confirmed that their premium fuel didn't have ethanol was Esso. Even though when you use the pump it says E5 on the nozzle. All the others said it contained ethanol. Consequently I now only use Esso Supreme.

Good news , is that nationwide? As i read except devon and cornwall but the other post states texaco but not cornwall or devon?! This is becoming a lot of hearsay and misinformation. I have a local esso garage but dont know if it has or has not. Any more clarification much appreciated.

 

[oldmemberl68]

I had a issue after leaving my c3 1969 tri carb parked up last winter without starting it all winter. First time out on my return the end 2 carb started leaking fuel into the engine when the engine was switch off . Once stripped down i found the float chambers was full of gray and yellow (tan) mush the ethanol crap had started eating into my carbs.
So ordered new overhaul kits and feed pipes carb to pump . Then set about cleaning and refacing the metering plates ( could not find replacments ) The engine now runs ok but put away for another winter with vsp in the fuel and tank safe in the tank
I thing my problem came about by using cheaper fuels with vsp Hence to say now i only use premium fuels but find it hard to locate petrol station that dont put ethanol in there fuels !!! I hope the car will be alright next summer

 

[Chuffer]

What a fag ! We are all paying the price for these damned ethanol measures . My delivery of multiple 250ml bottles of Millers EPS arrived today for my 1980 C3 , so that will go in the tank at the earliest opportunity and give it a good run up before winter lay up . Just makes me wonder what damage has already been done by all this ethanol even though use premium fuels as much as possible . Hope your `69 comes through it all ok .