Electric C3

[Vetman]

Youtube video on ‘71 conversion to electric. Not very advanced yet and the presenters are painful but could get interesting, even if you don’t approve.

I started to consider the pros and cons in no particular order.
Pros: no loss of luggage space (hardly possible); no more ethylene worries; bigger range; cheaper to run; home charging, improved big block weight distribution; friendlier neighbours.
Cons: loss of V8; not enough noise; no smell of petrol to get high on.
Any others?

 

[Chuffer]

OMG ! Is nothing sacred ?

 

[CaptainK]

Pros: Cheaper to run.
Cons: Where do I start?!?!?!? But you don't buy a classic car for it to be cheaper to run. I bought my Vette primarily for two things - V8, and errm.... V8 !!!!

Don't get me wrong, I like electric cars. I also like classic cars. I buy a classic car because I like the way it is, sounds, feels and reminds me of older days. So it should remain as a petrol / diesel powered car etc.

I wonder if enterprising folks are going to be gutting out their steam locomotives and replacing them with electric motors? Or horsey folk bionically enhancing their horses and replacing the legs with electrically operated legs powered by a pack of batteries strapped to the horse's tummy?

 

[Chuffer]

CaptainK - Thanks for painting an even gloomier picture of the future As for the steam loco convert , it has already been done ! A full size standard gauge facsimile of 70013 `Oliver Cromwell ` that I have working at the Great Central Railway has been built under a cloak of secrecy for the new James Bond movie . It is constructed in glass fibre , has a smoke and steam generating unit built into it for realism and a battery powered electric motor in the tender . It cost a fortune to build and was tested in secret on the Great Central Railway between Loughborough and Leicester last year . It will get driven to destruction on a viaduct that is blown up in the movie . Best thing to do with electric propelled classics if you ask me !
There have been a few embellishments made to the film version to make it look more like a foreign locomotive from the original .

 

[Roscobbc]

Unless the Vette was purchased for nothing - I fail to see how the amortised cost of all the electrical components, sructural modifications, labour - and the most expensive part the battery cost, can make it 'cheap' to run. Its like the person who sells his 20 year old 2 litre Mondeo for £500 'coz it only averages 22 mpg. Then goes and buys a new £15K Fiesta that does 45 mpg and champions the fact that its costing him so little to run - forgetting that its just cost him £14500 for the privelege of doing that!

 

[antijam]

I run a Toyota Hybrid Estate as a daily driver. It's an unexciting drive and averages around 47mpg. There are plenty of conventional internal combustion powered cars that will equal that so the saving in pollution is neglible. It does have the advantage of being very simple to drive ( no gear changes, either manual or automatic ), it's a good load carrier and best of all, under current legislation, it incurs zero road tax - which helps to offset the £580 p.a. rate on my Mustang!

 

[Roscobbc]

I run a Toyota Hybrid Estate as a daily driver. It's an unexciting drive and averages around 47mpg. There are plenty of conventional internal combustion powered cars that will equal that so the saving in pollution is neglible. It does have the advantage of being very simple to drive ( no gear changes, either manual or automatic ), it's a good load carrier and best of all, under current legislation, it incurs zero road tax - which helps to offset the £580 p.a. rate on my Mustang!

I'm with you Antjam. My previous DD for 3 years was a company BMW 2 series active tourer plug-in hybrid. 3 cylinder turbo petrol automatic. A great car (if you didn't actually have to buy it) - hot hatch sub 7 second 0-60's........but, lousy fuel economy for a hybrid. Average over 60K miles was 33mpg. Car before that was a Luxus IS300H self changing hybrid. 2.5 ltr and average fuel economy 44 mpg..........Was using a Kia Nero self changing hybrid for a few weeks 1500 cc and average fuel economy of 47 mpg. For all of these cars to make some form of sense in initial purchase terms you really need to be doing at least 20-25000 miles - will 'lock-down' and alternative work regimes now, and in the foreseeable future do they make sense?

 

[Chuffer]

Antijam - The carbon footprint of your hybrid is probably no better in the long term than a modern high efficiency infernal combustion engine due to the precious metals in the batteries . Over their lifespan , all electric cars will have a much higher carbon footprint from manufacture to end of use . The government and the greenies have duped the public into thinking they will reduce carbon emissions and save the planet . They ignore the vast mining industry required to dig up all that expensive unobtainium in third world countries , ship it half way round the world and the carbon effects of mass production to manufacture millions of batteries . But of course they will dump that responsibility on other countries and have the gaul to smile smuggly and say the UK has reduced its carbon emissions as promised ! And don`t even get me started on the cost in monetary and pollution terms of creating the infrastructure to provide sufficient electricity to the end user to plug in his electric car I sleep soundly in the knowledge that my daily driver 5.7 litre V8 Grand Cherokee will be 15 years old next month , has only done 64,000 miles , will go on for ever , so its lifetime carbon footprint must be about zero by now ! Rant over - for now !

 

[Roscobbc]

Antijam - The carbon footprint of your hybrid is probably no better in the long term than a modern high efficiency infernal combustion engine due to the precious metals in the batteries . Over their lifespan , all electric cars will have a much higher carbon footprint from manufacture to end of use . The government and the greenies have duped the public into thinking they will reduce carbon emissions and save the planet . They ignore the vast mining industry required to dig up all that expensive unobtainium in third world countries , ship it half way round the world and the carbon effects of mass production to manufacture millions of batteries . But of course they will dump that responsibility on other countries and have the gaul to smile smuggly and say the UK has reduced its carbon emissions as promised ! And don`t even get me started on the cost in monetary and pollution terms of creating the infrastructure to provide sufficient electricity to the end user to plug in his electric car I sleep soundly in the knowledge that my daily driver 5.7 litre V8 Grand Cherokee will be 15 years old next month , has only done 64,000 miles , will go on for ever , so its lifetime carbon footprint must be about zero by now ! Rant over - for now !

Perhaps with my '68 BB now coming-up for 52 years old I should consider applying for 'carbon neutral' classification?

 

[Chuffer]

Go for it Ros

 

[Daytona Vette]

My Vette is already electric, it needs 12 volts, it tried being vegetarian for a week or so, but there was just too much gas - I now run it on aviation fuel - they don't dare put that ethanol in the mix and anyway ethanol is fermented corn so did you know you are all running vegetarian Vettes, unless of course you are a true fossil carnivore and run ethanol free.

An electric Vette?, as Chuffer says; the world does not win in the end - they are just moving the pollution around, the same with the low energy fluorescent light bulb

If we have had ice ages in the past and we are not in one now - we must of had global warming and exactly from where did the carbon footprint eminate?

 

[Vetman]

C1’s?

 

[Chuffer]

Daytona Vette - at me and you and you are on the same page ! There have been at least two ice ages come and go with global warming in between . I know because i was there for one of them . See levels have risen and fallen for millions of years , that`s why there are so many fossils on the Durasic Coast ! But the powers that be try to kid us all our fault . I don`t recall there being internal combustion engines , coal fired power stations and Boing 747`s two million years ago ?

 

[CaptainK]

CaptainK - Thanks for painting an even gloomier picture of the future

Sorry about that As for the electric steam train - that does sound cool, but I'm glad its getting blown up. I live near the West Somerset Railway currently and I hear the trains often.... well, except this year as they are grounded due to COVID etc. I was hoping to start a steam train driving course with them a couple of years back, but life got busy. Then last year was a no-go due to COVID and this year is probably off too. That and I'm busy this year as well. I always go to their Steam Rally ever year with the Corvette etc (classic car entry too). I love the sights, sounds, and smell of all the steam traction engines - brought up on them as my grandfolks too me to steam events when I was a wee one.. I went to the Dorset big 50th event too and that was amazing.

I did read an article somewhere about electrically converting some of the steam locos that go up mountains in main land Europe somewhere (Switzerland?). Can't remember much about the article as it was a while back.

 

[CaptainK]

Unless the Vette was purchased for nothing - I fail to see how the amortised cost of all the electrical components, sructural modifications, labour - and the most expensive part the battery cost, can make it 'cheap' to run. Its like the person who sells his 20 year old 2 litre Mondeo for £500 'coz it only averages 22 mpg. Then goes and buys a new £15K Fiesta that does 45 mpg and champions the fact that its costing him so little to run - forgetting that its just cost him £14500 for the privelege of doing that!

^^ this and ^^ THIS.

Like you, I'm amazed when I see people go "oh, my car only does 40mpg, I best get a new one that does 45mpg as that's better right?". And then like you said, spend £300 a month on the car loan thing.

Same when I hear people say "oh, my car is ancient as its 5 years old now. Its going to cost me a fortune in maintenance. I best get a new car". But they already had a car they had paid off, and other than the usual fuel/tax/insurance/servicing was costing them nothing unless it broke down. But are the yearly costs of those repairs going to be more than £300/month X 12 = £3.6k??? I certainly don't spend that on my whole fleet of cars a year (and my newest car is 14 years old now, and yes, I'm not that great at car DIY so most repairs are at a garage).

 

[Chuffer]

Hi CaptainK . A lovely part of the country to live plus steam trains thrown in too The West Somerset Railway Railway is a great line with great scenery . You really should make time to do a Steam Driving Course with them , you will love it and it will be the fastest 25mph of your life , trust me . I was a driving instructor for many years on the Severn Valley Railway and a Firing Instructor before that . Everyone who did a courses loved every second and was amazed at the sensation of speed as the loco shakes and rattles so much and the noise is so loud. They nearly always thought we were going faster than we actually were . 25mph is the normal permitted maximum speed on heritage railways . At 80mph plus out on the national railway system it can be borderline scary
I spent a couple of great days on the WSR at Bishops Lydeard with two of our steam locos having worked a charter train up from Penzance to Taunton before working them back to Bridgnorth on the Severn Valley Railway back in 1998 . Scary how the years flash by ! I found this photo of us in aweful weather waiting to depart from Penzance . I was on the leading loco .
Also totally agree with you about the people who keep buying new cars thinking they are getting the best deal and saving on fuel . But there is so much snobbery about always owning a new car . But a good un and stick with it !

 

[Roscobbc]

Steam - don't you just love it. Kinda think that IF steam powered trains were still in use they would be significantly different that what we know. Firstly I'm guessing coal would be out of favour. Whether our coal mine would have all shut down if steam continued is debateble (don't you need a specific 'steam coal' Chuffer?) - guessing health and safety would have a thing to say about air quality/airborne pollution etc. Perhaps coal would have been replaced by oil as per USA (for a while) perhaps LPG.......Chuffer?

 

[antijam]

 

[Vetman]

Response to earlier posts. Positive proof of global warming. See attached.

 

[Chuffer]

An atomic loco ? That`s a new one on me ! In response to Roscobb , Steam coal is a totally different animal to house coal or power station coal and of higher calorific value . Soft Welsh Steam Coal was regarded as some of the best and I always found it really good but needed a different style of firing by the fireman than hard coal because it needs longer to burn efficiently with a strong exhaust blast through the chimney to draw primary air through the firebox grate via the flue tubes within the boiler . So a fireman needed skill to get the best out of it . Efficient burning of the gases created by the burning off coal increases the calorific value of coal by about 33% per ton of coal . At about 3000 degrees F the Nitrogen , Oxygen , Carbon and Sulphur given off will be burnt to create this massive increase in heat production thus leaving only ash as a residue . So when you see photos of locos making impressive columns of black smoke they have just had fresh coal shovelled in and not reached maximum efficiency . Or just simply a bad inexperienced fireman ! A light grey haze off the chimney is what you aim for .
There were flirtations with various other fuels like oil . This was introduced in the UK towards end of WW2 and the severe winter of 1947 due to national shortages of good quality coal . The plus side with oil was an average increase of 4000 BTU per ton compared to coal , had less waste , was cleaner and reduced the gradual clogging up of flue tubes . However , when the railways were nationalised in 1948 the price of oil was rocketing ( nothing new there ) and the idea dropped with the 93 locos converted to oil reverted to coal burning .
One steam turbine loco was built in 1935 on marine propulsion principles but it was high maintenance and was converted back to a conventional loco. A gas turbine loco called GT3 was built in 1961 by oddly enough , the English Electric Company and trialed on BR but that didn`t catch on either !
The following photos taken leaving Crewe Station and and returning from Glasgow Central Station would give the Greenies heart failure ! Carbon footprint ? What carbon footprint ? ?? I am on the second of the two locos .
See also the Turbomotive and GT3 .