C3 POWER STEERING - could be bad to have it?

[Giu]

Hi guys, one thing puzzled me about C3 power steering. In modern cars, the steering became stiffer according to the speed. Is no the case with my C3 at 70 Mph... I realized that my drive wheel sensitivity was the same I have in the parking space, but with a RWD in speed. There is a reason you often risk the "spin turtle" effect with this car, like in the old US movies, well was a must scene to see indeed. Now is only my C3 1975 SB that has this issue?! There is a way to mitigate the "Power" of the power steering? Someone suggested me to remove it but sounds weird to me. Any thoughts/suggestion?

thank you in advance

 

[Roscobbc]

Speed sensitive power steering is a relatively modern 'innovation' perhaps only seen during the last 15/20 years on top spec cars. Simplest way to mitigate the effect of overly light steering is to consider a smaller steering wheel - I have a 12.5" wheel in mine - couple that with the 255/45/18 Toyo's up front the steering wheel effort is acceptably heavier and faster reacting.........however things like speedo and rev counter can be partially masked and direction indicator stalk looks a little lost.

 

[Chuffer]

Likewise , I have a Grant GT steering wheel and run 255 / 55/ R15 `s on the front and have no issues with steering feel considering it`s a 42 year old vehicle with a design that goes back even further .

 

[Forrest Gump]

Converting from power steering to manual steering can be done but most people would say it’s a retrograde step. I’ve thought about it one or twice when the p/s was giving me grief!
It requires a different pitman arm (on the output end of steering box) and a different relay rod (connecting pitman arm to the steering arms). The steering arms on C3s have a second drilling for the rod ends for manual steering, slightly outboard to give increased leverage. These are filled with lead to delete them, so not obvious at a glance.
Oneball’s race car is manual steering (I think) with wide tyres, maybe he can tell us what that feels like. Hard work for parking, but great steering feedback I imagine would be the answer.

 

[Giu]

Oneball’s race car is manual steering (I think) with wide tyres, maybe he can tell us what that feels like. Hard work for parking, but great steering feedback I imagine would be the answer.

I love these assembly secret revealed ..... Right.... so the very light steering is normal cause the technology for progressive stiffness landed later in the years, got you. In the end all beautiful small sports steering wheels are hacks to mitigate the p/s, but at 70 mph the wheel is very very light sometimes dangerously light for a car with lot of torque... at this point for certain we need the opinion of someone that has the manual feature cause now is interesting to listen their story and experience!!!!

 

[teamzr1]

From a maintenance standpoint
Has the belt attached to PS pump pulley checked for proper tension, pulley spins flat, no wobble
and last time the PS fluid was flushed in case some valving is restricted ?
As mentioned, the diameter of the steering wheel can have an effect on the amount of its movement effects PS feel

Reminds me back in mid 1960s clunkers I owned that did not have PS and would mount a cheater on steering wheel
that was a rotating knob that made it easier to make turns

Though if caught using, one would be labeled by the guys as being a pansy ass

For the young ones, now you know when someone tells you to do a Brodie, is now called doing donuts

 

[Forrest Gump]

I love these assembly secret revealed ..... Right.... so the very light steering is normal cause the technology for progressive stiffness landed later in the years, got you. In the end all beautiful small sports steering wheels are hacks to mitigate the p/s, but at 70 mph the wheel is very very light sometimes dangerously light for a car with lot of torque... at this point for certain we need the opinion of someone that has the manual feature cause now is interesting to listen their story and experience!!!!

From the factory, C3s suspension is set with very little caster angle on the front wheels. This results in the steering having very little “centring“ tendency and as you are finding it’s not a nice feeling at speed. Adding more caster is achieved by moving shims from the forward to the rearward mounting points. I’ve done this and it makes a significant improvement to the steering weight. Don’t exceed the specified maximum of 0.4” difference between the shim stacks.
The diagram below was from a previous thread on the forum where this was discussed.

 

[Chuffer]

My C3 had been set up that way when I bought it .

 

[CaptainK]

I must confess I quite like having power steering active at all driving speeds, like in my 68 Vette and various other old cars I've owned. My "newer" Ford Focus has the variable power steering that gets heavier at speed, and to be honest I find it hurts my wrists trying to do small subtle steering inputs at motorway speed. I should add that my right wrist got duffed up in a car accident many years ago, so prefers the light PS feeling at speed like in the Vette.

 

[Giu]

From the factory, C3s suspension is set with very little caster angle on the front wheels. This results in the steering having very little “centring“ tendency and as you are finding it’s not a nice feeling at speed. Adding more caster is achieved by moving shims from the forward to the rearward mounting points. I’ve done this and it makes a significant improvement to the steering weight. Don’t exceed the specified maximum of 0.4” difference between the shim stacks.
The diagram below was from a previous thread on the forum where this was discussed.

The Diagram is great!!! and make more sense to me now, my car steering wheel tend to not come back to the centre when I'm finish cornering, so I need to manually accompany the wheel in the centre myself. I put all these hints in consideration, maybe the first thing to check is the Caster indeed, the lack of proper caster could give me this "NO-control" effect when I'm at a speed, thanks!!!

 

[Roscobbc]

I must confess I quite like having power steering active at all driving speeds, like in my 68 Vette and various other old cars I've owned. My "newer" Ford Focus has the variable power steering that gets heavier at speed, and to be honest I find it hurts my wrists trying to do small subtle steering inputs at motorway speed. I should add that my right wrist got duffed up in a car accident many years ago, so prefers the light PS feeling at speed like in the Vette.

So not the result of systematic and continual 'self abuse' then.......?

 

[Roscobbc]

TBH I can't really see a significant advantage of going 'Steeroids' or similar rack & pinion systems.......I mean, the C3 hasn't exactly got the most rigid of chassis's anyway and with stock sized 'squidgy' high profile tyres would you get significant benefits over an above a well adjusted and set-up standard steering box?

 

[Oneball]

Oneball’s race car is manual steering (I think) with wide tyres, maybe he can tell us what that feels like. Hard work for parking, but great steering feedback I imagine would be the answer.

Feels normal once moving. Feedback is pretty good but there’s no play in anything and I rebuilt the steering box so it’s should be factory fresh. It’s also got about as much caster and camber as possible. Parking speed.. I pulled a muscle in my neck that crippled me for two weeks once!

I wouldn’t have thought feedback would be too affected by the power steering. Maybe look at geometry first and the steering box set up. The box in a Vette is designed for a dead point around centre to help it stay straight and needs to be set up accordingly.

 

[CaptainK]

So not the result of systematic and continual 'self abuse' then.......?

You wouldn't believe how many times I've heard that over the years. The car accident happened around 15 years ago. Head on with a lorry piloted by a drunk driver, my arm and wrist got bashed around the inners of the steering wheel. It thankfully still works ok, but I do have a lot of the feeling of "repetitive strain injury", which as you pointed out makes ALL the blokes say the same "joke".

But back on topic, that's why I prefer the "always on" power steering systems. My old Sierra XR4x4 was the best one I had after the accident for easy cruising on the motorway.

 

[Roscobbc]

Some cars years ago supplied as standard without power steering were simply too much in terms of effort for many people. My wife really struggled with a superb Capri 2 litre S automatic we bought of a friend. The weight of the steering and small OEM steering wheel was totally at odds with the automatic transmission. The old PB Crests automatic she had back then with its skinny tyres, large diameter multi-turn steering wheel was perfectly manageable.

 

[Chuffer]

Some cars years ago supplied as standard without power steering were simply too much in terms of effort for many people. My wife really struggled with a superb Capri 2 litre S automatic we bought of a friend. The weight of the steering and small OEM steering wheel was totally at odds with the automatic transmission. The old PB Crests automatic she had back then with its skinny tyres, large diameter multi-turn steering wheel was perfectly manageable.

For totally feel free power stearing try a Jaguar E Type V12 . They were aimed at the American market and a friend had one that I drove once . Negotiating a roundabout had the steering wheel flailing around like a wind mill !! I have driven traction engines with more steering response .

 

[Roscobbc]

For totally feel free power stearing try a Jaguar E Type V12 . They were aimed at the American market and a friend had one that I drove once . Negotiating a roundabout had the steering wheel flailing around like a wind mill !! I have driven traction engines with more steering response .

Much like a Rolls Shadow 1 with its over assisted steering, operable with your little finger if you wished. Shadow 2 had power rack and pinion steering which was far better.
Makes me think about Ford's Pinto based Mustang 11 and its 'contribution' to the hot rod world. Power assisted rack & pinion steering and front suspension 'clip' graced the front end of many hot rods and is currently still being manufactured by aftermarket companies as a bolt-in system to upgrade many period American cars.

 

[Giu]

Feels normal once moving. Feedback is pretty good but there’s no play in anything and I rebuilt the steering box so it’s should be factory fresh. It’s also got about as much caster and camber as possible. Parking speed.. I pulled a muscle in my neck that crippled me for two weeks once!

Jesus!!! Who needs the Gym?!