A '65 C2 That's Seen Better Days [Video]

[Johnrdking]

Hey folks,

I picked up a '65 with a bunch of mods. The engine is an unknown replacement from the 70s, she photographs well, but she's a bit rough around the edges inside. 20min walkaround video linked [here]

What I can't work out is... Does it just need a bit of TLC? Or are there some serious issues here I need to contend with?

Even the doors look like they're splitting at the edges!

If you've got pictures of how a C2 'should' look on the inside, show me! So I know what I'm missing

In the video, I sound judgy, which is a bit unfair - so here's what she looks like when the sun's out:

 

[Roscobbc]

There are perhaps more fundimental things to look at and consider (chassis etc) - photo's you've posted don't on their own tell too much of a story other than some odd things going-on around the door shuts.....perhaps some longer range shots showing all of the interior from differing perspectives may help. If the hood decal (454) is correct you'll be looking forward to some fun with that engine out there on the road............

 

[Johnrdking]

There are perhaps more fundimental things to look at and consider (chassis etc) - photo's you've posted don't on their own tell too much of a story

Your quite right. It looks like I can only add ten photos per post, so I'll do a walk around tour and post a video later today so you can see everything.

I don't know if this is normal, but to drive it, it feels like someone's duct-taped a bunch of sheet metal together, and strapped it to a rocket

But I know the manifolds that have been fitted are too large, and are knocking other bits in the engine bay at higher speeds...

 

[johng]

Looks like you have got a very interesting project there, I'm looking forward to seeing how it develops. Please keep us all updated. I don't know much about C2s, but my C3 certainly rattles well over rough surfaces.

 

[Roscobbc]

Your quite right. It looks like I can only add ten photos per post, so I'll do a walk around tour and post a video later today so you can see everything.

I don't know if this is normal, but to drive it, it feels like someone's duct-taped a bunch of sheet metal together, and strapped it to a rocket

But I know the manifolds that have been fitted are too large, and are knocking other bits in the engine bay at higher speeds...

If you are relating to exhaust manifolds banging on something it could be failed engine mounts. The rubber 'pads' can separate from the metal parts due to age, excess torque and hard driving. Quite common with big blocks. Engine then 'rides-up' when giving it the beans..........a set of 'poly' mounts can make a huge difference.

 

[Chevrolet]

Did you get "temporary" insurance on it to get it home?
Temporary Insurance

 

[Johnrdking]

Did you get "temporary" insurance on it to get it home?
Temporary Insurance

Nah, I got a full blown policy for the year from Hagerty (£370, 1000miles pa) - turns out you can cancel it within 14 days for a refund if you don't need it

 

[Chevrolet]

I saw the ad for that car on Ebay. I think it looks great "as is." I was tempted to go and have a look at the time at that price but didn't. Thought that after a C4, C6 & C7 that was maybe not a good idea? I wouldnt spend a penny on it to try and make it look more "original/stock". Its a "Resto Mod" C2 is it not? In the ad, the seller said that the previous owner blacked out the chrome bits and removed the bumpers to give a "Can-Am" look. Engine looked fantastic in the Ebay ad photos. Like those wheels too, and the Boyd Coddington style steering wheel. If it was my car, I'd be tempted to redo the wheel centres and bumpers in matt black or "black chrome" etc to give it that extra "stealth look." But thats me.

 

[Johnrdking]

There are perhaps more fundimental things to look at and consider (chassis etc) - photo's you've posted don't on their own tell too much of a story other than some odd things going-on around the door shuts.....perhaps some longer range shots showing all of the interior from differing perspectives may help. If the hood decal (454) is correct you'll be looking forward to some fun with that engine out there on the road............

Main post updated with a link to that 'walk around' video - linked here to save you scrolling:
Dropbox

 

[Johnrdking]

Its a "Resto Mod" C2 is it not? In the ad, the seller said that the previous owner blacked out the chrome bits and removed the bumpers to give a "Can-Am" look.

You're quite right - each to their own, but I'm a sucker for the Kelsey Hayes knock-off style wheels and shiny chrome trim.
As you say, it's a resto-mod, so I can change it up without feeling like I'm committing an act of heresy!

I've added a link to the main post with a walkaround - I popped the hood so you could get a closer look at the engine:

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[Johnrdking]

If you are relating to exhaust manifolds banging on something it could be failed engine mounts. The rubber 'pads' can separate from the metal parts due to age, excess torque and hard driving. Quite common with big blocks. Engine then 'rides-up' when giving it the beans..........a set of 'poly' mounts can make a huge difference.

My brother said something similar - although he reckons part of the problem is space, in the video (added to the original post) you can see a dent in the manifold where the block is bashing into the steering.... thing. There's certainly some work to do!

 

[Nassau65]

All the things you “like” are available ie the shiny bits bumpers, trim etc, wheels again are available. That 454ci is a great motor, get a set of original manifolds that will help.
Keep it as a resto mod and enjoy it.

 

[Johnrdking]

All the things you “like” are available ie the shiny bits bumpers, trim etc, wheels again are available. That 454ci is a great motor, get a set of original manifolds that will help.
Keep it as a resto mod and enjoy it.

Thank you.
Daft question from me - when I was reading ahead of finding a car, I picked up a bunch of old books and magazines on the various Stingray engines, and a collection of articles from Hot Rodder on how some of them were modified. How do you go about identifying the 454ci engine in there, so I can find some manuals/diagrams for it?

 

[Nassau65]

The casting # should tell you a bit about its original application. It’s at the rear of the block

 

[teamzr1]

FYI

Looking at GM engineering documents (I am including below as a PDF)
Read that closely as all design and specs for 1965 MY

All engines were 327 CI, except the L78 option, and it was a 396 CI, no big block 454 CI shown

So they shoehorned in the 454 and reason little room for the stock exhaust setup
Clearly this C2 was raced and others changes I see in the little bit shown in your video

 

[Nassau65]

Engine swaps on early corvettes 1956-67 were pretty common. Most 56-60 models got either a 327 or 350 to replace that ole 283. C2’s were a little different as the 327 was a pretty decent motor but engine swaps were not uncommon

 

[Roscobbc]

Interesting video John - thanks for posting.
Whilst later C2 chassis is much the same as the early C3 chassis obviously the body and interior share no common components, so I can't help re. interior questions.
The engine would appear to have the HEI ignition which would perhaps suggest it is later than 1970......although the distributor could have been changed. Casting numbers should help verify......although it won't discount any aftermarket parts being added.
Have you driven on the road yet? had a chance to see what rpm its running at specific speeds in 4th and 5th. I ask that because if the car is trying to 'runaway' like you say it could be a combination of a OEM 'performance' high numerical rear axle ratio fitted from new.......coupled with that 5 speed transmission.
A stock manual transmission would be a wide ratio M20 or close ratio M21. A big block car will comfortably handle a close ratio (2.20 1st gear) M21 with the lowest 3.08 rear end. Some of the aftermarket 5 and 6 speed 'boxes have 1st and intermediate ratios that are better suited to small block lower torque engines......
My previous comments about using poly engine mounts still hold true - they will often 'lift' the engine a fraction higher in the frame, centre-it better and give a little bit better clearance to the steering box when using headers. Someone has 'relieved' yours with a hammer.....don't worry I have seen far worse 'dents; that yours....it won't make any difference to performance.
If your engine is in fact one of the OEM high performance units with rectangular port heads then the headers may be adequate.......but the exhaust system itself is suspect.....it may be too small diameter......those Cherry Bombs always coke-up and sound too noisy.
Guessing you haven't used the car in town or in heavy traffic on a hot summers day? Fact is that on any day, whatever the temperature the cabin heat will oppressive. Not made any easier being a coupe and you can't remove the roof panels or rear window.
A major 'going-over' with one of the proprietory insulation brands like Dynamat will help.....both within the cabin on the floor and under the dashm, inside the doors and ideally under the car too.....you'll probably need two products....one for reducing heat.....one for reducing noise.

 

[teamzr1]

There was just one manual tranny that was a 4 speed. Rear end gears from 3.08 to options up to 4.56



Exhaust on it is totally wrong as looks like this came with side exhaust and pipe was 2 inches OD
Looks like only about 1 inch and is this only a single exhaust on it now ?
Wrong for a 454 big block, too much back pressure





Interesting, I did not know back in 1965 that it had 4 wheel disc brakes

 

[Johnrdking]

Have you driven on the road yet? had a chance to see what rpm its running at specific speeds in 4th and 5th.

All great commentary, thank you

I had a go yesterday as it happens - I did a 15minute run to the Carding Shed (a classic car cafe, well worth a look if you're in West Yorkshire!) - a lot on winding, narrow, country roads that take you through town, so a lot of low-gear stop-start action.

In 4th/5th at 30-40mph, it's getting 1,500 rpm, and purrs quietly, clearly it's happy place - but in 1-3, it's over 2,000 and feels really jumpy.

If the issue is a new OEM rear axle ratio, can that be refined? Or does that need swapping out? Practically, most of my driving will be slow, meandering cruises through Yorkshire, with the occasional sprint on the motorway.

You're right though, I see a lot of dynamat and 3M spray glue in my future

I'll see if I can get my missus to film it driving at low speed - it could just be my crap driving...

 

[Johnrdking]

Exhaust on it is totally wrong as looks like this came with side exhaust and pipe was 2 inches OD
Looks like only about 1 inch and is this only a single exhaust on it now ?
Wrong for a 454 big block, too much back pressure

Very useful, thank you!

There's very little on this car that is original, besides the body, frame, and some interior bits - so your findings don't surprise me. I did look up the VIN and trim tags, and as you say, what you see today is very different from what rolled off the production line.

Bare minimum, it looks like the exhaust needs replacing. I'm tempted to swap it back to side pipes to be honest! Would they work well with a 454?