Chuffer
CCCUK Member
It`s amazing how many British diesel locos got sold of to European countries once surplus to requirement in the UK . The official classification for that shunter was Class O8 but we always referred to them as ` Jocko`s `.
A different train of thought .
- Thread starter Chuffer
- Start date
Chuffer
CCCUK Member
Those Hunslet designed and built 0-6-0 Saddle Tank locos were built an many hundreds and so many were needed during and just after WW2 many were outsourced to other manufacturers in the UK such as Bagnell , Hawthorns and Robert Stephenson & Company and Hudswell Clarke . They are the most numerous type of preserved locos in the UK with 68 surviving plus your one in the Nederlands . In the UK they were known as `Austerities` due to their simple rugged design that were quick and easy to build for the war effort and the recovery of the Britain after the war . Many went abroad during their War Department years . Many survived here in active service in the UK in collieries , quarries , steel works etc for many years which is why so many avoided the scrap man and are now preserved in working order . We have one on the Great Central Railway. I took this shot of it in the loco depot yard a couple of years ago .
Chuffer
CCCUK Member
Continuing the War Department theme and the North British Locomotive Works in Glasgow , here is another locomotive with a very interesting history which I was fortunate to have a close personal relationship with for many years . It is Stanier Class 8F 2-8-0 heavy freight loco number 48773 which was one of 852 built and was the London Midland & Scottish Railways ( LMS) standard heavy freight loco design dating back to 1935 with many being built at the LMS main workshops in Crewe . As demand increased with the onset of WW2 , many were built at other factories including North British in Glasgow where 48773 was built in 1940 . It was sent brand new to join the Royal Engineers Regiment in Egypt during the war and managed to survive unscathed other than being derailed by a camel whilst crossing the desert !!
At the end of hostilities it stayed in Egypt and used by Egyptian State Railways . It was withdrawn from service as it needed a new firebox and was due to be cut up but amazingly the newly formed nationalised British Railways saw fit to buy it back in 1948 and send it the Crewe Works for a major overhaul and it survived with British Railways and became one of the last operational steam locos when BR axed all steam loco operations in August 1968 . I traveled behind it on a `Farewell To Steam ` special train in April 1968 and to a photo of it that at Bolton in Lancashire . I never imagined as a 16 year old lad that day saying " goodbye " to steam on British Railways that I would eventually become a fireman and the driver covering many hundreds of miles on it over the years as well as two major overhauls in it throughout . Unfortunately it is now on static display in the Severn Valley Railways ( SVR) Museum as its boiler is life expired and the there is little hope of it steaming again due to lack of funds which is very sad as it was purchased by the SVR in full working order straight from British Railways in 1968 .
Of many happy memories , two really stand out . One was as support crew on in it to take it ` double headed ` with another loco down to Penzance in Cornwall to haul a charter train as far as Taunton in Devon . After a two day lay over at the nearby West Somerset Railway where the fire was dropped , firebox cleaned out , full preparation and oiling up before getting a timetabled slot on the national rail network where I was fireman back to Kidderminster on the Severn Valley Railway . The second occasion was a few years later when as driver on it an old gentlemen stood admiring it from the station platform . He had tears in his eyes and told me as a young Royal Engineer soldier in WW2 he was fireman on 48773 in Egypt and never thought he would live to see the `old girl` again . I felt a bit choked myself and just had to invite him up on the footplate . It made his day and mine too !
Photo 1 - Bolton 1968
Photo 2 - 48773 in action
Phot0 3 - 48773 leading 45110 as we power away from Penzance in atrocious weather .
At the end of hostilities it stayed in Egypt and used by Egyptian State Railways . It was withdrawn from service as it needed a new firebox and was due to be cut up but amazingly the newly formed nationalised British Railways saw fit to buy it back in 1948 and send it the Crewe Works for a major overhaul and it survived with British Railways and became one of the last operational steam locos when BR axed all steam loco operations in August 1968 . I traveled behind it on a `Farewell To Steam ` special train in April 1968 and to a photo of it that at Bolton in Lancashire . I never imagined as a 16 year old lad that day saying " goodbye " to steam on British Railways that I would eventually become a fireman and the driver covering many hundreds of miles on it over the years as well as two major overhauls in it throughout . Unfortunately it is now on static display in the Severn Valley Railways ( SVR) Museum as its boiler is life expired and the there is little hope of it steaming again due to lack of funds which is very sad as it was purchased by the SVR in full working order straight from British Railways in 1968 .
Of many happy memories , two really stand out . One was as support crew on in it to take it ` double headed ` with another loco down to Penzance in Cornwall to haul a charter train as far as Taunton in Devon . After a two day lay over at the nearby West Somerset Railway where the fire was dropped , firebox cleaned out , full preparation and oiling up before getting a timetabled slot on the national rail network where I was fireman back to Kidderminster on the Severn Valley Railway . The second occasion was a few years later when as driver on it an old gentlemen stood admiring it from the station platform . He had tears in his eyes and told me as a young Royal Engineer soldier in WW2 he was fireman on 48773 in Egypt and never thought he would live to see the `old girl` again . I felt a bit choked myself and just had to invite him up on the footplate . It made his day and mine too !
Photo 1 - Bolton 1968
Photo 2 - 48773 in action
Phot0 3 - 48773 leading 45110 as we power away from Penzance in atrocious weather .
Chuffer
CCCUK Member
Today was more steady progress on rust removal from Sir Lamiel`s boiler barrel and getting the first of two coats of heat resistant paint on . This time it was the turn of the left hand side of the boiler and at least I had help from a mate for half the day rather than the left hand side done all on my own recently . We are getting there slowly !!
Another minor milestone has been the delivery of the four new piston valve liners from the foundary complete with new molds for future use . The first liner is already in the machine shop ready for machining the external diameters to interference fit size and then the bores machined and having the valve ports milled out . These along with the new piston liners and piston rings next on the list will improve the locos performance no end once the valve events are set properly .
Meanwhile there was plenty of activity and excitement going on in the loco yard as the famous LNER A1 Class Pacific replica `Tornado ` moved for the first time under its own power after a circa £1 million overhaul since its boiler certificate expired in 2019 . It was undergoing the statutory `steam test` to ensure that everything works as it should . Still to come will be testing of even more high tech electonic systems that have had to be fitted to comply with the latest European Train Communication Systems for when it operates on the national railway system . Would you believe it now has LCD screens in the cab and display screen equipment for the crew to monitor modern signalling systems . How all that high tech will cope with the heat and steam on the footplate I await to be convinced !! I thought the amount of technology built into the loco when brand new in 2009 when I first drove it was incredible but it has now reached mind boggling levels to complexity to meet with the ever increasing demands of the modern railway systems of today and the future . How much longer can steam loco operations survive other than on Heritage Railways I wonder ?
An interesting photo shot presented itself when Tornado pulled up next to the nemesis of all of the original A1 Class Pacific`s , the A3`s like Flying Scotsman and the streamlined A4 Pacific`s on the crack express`s from London Kings Cross to York and Edinburgh . That nemesis was the 3,300bhp Deltic diesel electrics that would run at 100mph all day long if pressed . ( The yellow `flashes ` on Tornado`s boiler and driving wheels is not a camera fault but the reflection of the Deltic`s yellow front end in the sunlight on Tornado`s prestine paintwork ) .
Another minor milestone has been the delivery of the four new piston valve liners from the foundary complete with new molds for future use . The first liner is already in the machine shop ready for machining the external diameters to interference fit size and then the bores machined and having the valve ports milled out . These along with the new piston liners and piston rings next on the list will improve the locos performance no end once the valve events are set properly .
Meanwhile there was plenty of activity and excitement going on in the loco yard as the famous LNER A1 Class Pacific replica `Tornado ` moved for the first time under its own power after a circa £1 million overhaul since its boiler certificate expired in 2019 . It was undergoing the statutory `steam test` to ensure that everything works as it should . Still to come will be testing of even more high tech electonic systems that have had to be fitted to comply with the latest European Train Communication Systems for when it operates on the national railway system . Would you believe it now has LCD screens in the cab and display screen equipment for the crew to monitor modern signalling systems . How all that high tech will cope with the heat and steam on the footplate I await to be convinced !! I thought the amount of technology built into the loco when brand new in 2009 when I first drove it was incredible but it has now reached mind boggling levels to complexity to meet with the ever increasing demands of the modern railway systems of today and the future . How much longer can steam loco operations survive other than on Heritage Railways I wonder ?
An interesting photo shot presented itself when Tornado pulled up next to the nemesis of all of the original A1 Class Pacific`s , the A3`s like Flying Scotsman and the streamlined A4 Pacific`s on the crack express`s from London Kings Cross to York and Edinburgh . That nemesis was the 3,300bhp Deltic diesel electrics that would run at 100mph all day long if pressed . ( The yellow `flashes ` on Tornado`s boiler and driving wheels is not a camera fault but the reflection of the Deltic`s yellow front end in the sunlight on Tornado`s prestine paintwork ) .
rubyragtop
Committee Member
It will be a sad day if (when?) they stop steam on the main lines. To see a steam train at full speed is something to behold and can't be replicated on heritage lines.
If only they would increase the allowed speeds on heritage lines to allow these beasts a bit more free rein.
If only they would increase the allowed speeds on heritage lines to allow these beasts a bit more free rein.
Chuffer
CCCUK Member
Unfortunately that will never happen on Heritage Lines due to their very nature as all except the Great Central Railway are restored branch lines or sections of minor cross country lines . This means mostly single track with relatively tight curves over shortish distances not to mention being engineered to lighter construction standards . Most Heritage Railways have been maintained over the years to comply with Light Railway Order standards for purely 25mph speed limits . None of them could afford the massive investment to re engineer to high speed standards . 25 mph can feel quite brisk on a single track heritage railway with lineside vegetation and cutting sides flashing by but I totally agree that these beasts are awesome at full tilt on the main line as I know from personal experience on the footplate at 80 mph . In a car it feels like nothing at all but on a steam locos bucking and bouncing noisy footplate it`s borderline scary !! I hope it continues too but the investment costs required for loco owners and ever more OTT legislation is immense , not to mention the long term availability of decent coal already costing over £300 per ton .
antijam
CCCUK Member
Chuffer
CCCUK Member
And we thought hybrid power was a new thing ! It`s an electric kettle on wheels !
Chuffer
CCCUK Member
We could always revert to turf burning locos like the Irish Railways trialed . Oh the sweat smell of burning grass !!!
antijam
CCCUK Member
CaptainK
CCCUK Member
After having my stint on the WSR with Odney Manor steam loco, I can say just moving it around a siding whilst practicing and at maximum getting up to 10mph that it can feel quite fast indeed. The max 25mph down the line that I did later did seem quite involving and felt fast. So I can only imagine that 80+mph must be a lot of "fun". I guess you'd get used to it if you were doing it regularly, but still.....
Chuffer
CCCUK Member
I did a lot of Steam Loco Driving Experience courses as an instructor and always told the participants that it would be the farstest 25 mph of their life . My party trick was to hang my Grease Top cap over the speedometer ( if one was fitted ) and ask them to guess our speed . They were usually miles out !
Chuffer
CCCUK Member
Made a bit more progress today on `Sir Lamiels` overhaul . The first job was to remove the interference fit phosphor bronze bushes out of the piston valve covers . It takes two of us to lift the very heavy valve covers just to get them on a pump trolley to move down the workshop to the hydraulic press machine only to find that the press ram did not raise high enough to set up the valve cover and put a robust steal ` dolly` in place to press down the bush . So it was back to the good old brute force approach with me and my mate taking it in turns with a 28 pound hammer and some serious ` wellie` to drive the bush out . That was a times two job as there is one piston valve for each of the two cylinders . The bushes are scrap due to wear and new phosphor bronze billets will be purchased ( not cheap !! ) for machining to fit into the cast steel covers and bored out to give a close sliding fit for the piston valve `tail rods ` . The bushes can be seen laying on top of the covers once removed in the photos .
The remainder of the day was spent polishing the valve spindles with various grades of abrasive paper and coating with oil to prevent oxidation until refitted to the loco as well as the painstaking task of scraping the off that carbonised lubricating oil that built up in the channels that hold the piston valve rings in place before new rings can be fitted . We are talking fine margins here but even the tiniest bit of carbon left in the channels will prevent the new rings from seating properly . Under the intense heat and steam pressure they are subject too , plus the rapid for and aft motion of the valves when travelling at speed , they may distort and fracture with potentially dire consequences if not perfectly seated in the valve heads.
As you will see in the photos , these massively heavy ` dumb bell ` shaped piston valves make fettling our Corvette solid lifter or hydraulic valves look `small beer` by comparison .
Another step in the right direction has been the completion of the Superheater Header that I showed being set up on the boring machine in the 27th July post . This involved the machining of the steam pipe flange mating faces and the machining and fitting of new threaded fixing studs . This will then soon be fitted back in the boiler smoke box which will no doubt involve much heaving and cursing to get it lifted and bolted into the cramped confines of the smoke box . The purpose of the header being to collect the saturated steam from the boiler when the driver opens the regulator ( throttle in car terms ) and channel the steam back through rows of superheater elements that pass through the large flue tubes in the boiler to reheat the saturated steam to superheated steam and thus dramatically increase expansive properties and hence the pressure of the steam in the locos cylinders and thus more power .
The remainder of the day was spent polishing the valve spindles with various grades of abrasive paper and coating with oil to prevent oxidation until refitted to the loco as well as the painstaking task of scraping the off that carbonised lubricating oil that built up in the channels that hold the piston valve rings in place before new rings can be fitted . We are talking fine margins here but even the tiniest bit of carbon left in the channels will prevent the new rings from seating properly . Under the intense heat and steam pressure they are subject too , plus the rapid for and aft motion of the valves when travelling at speed , they may distort and fracture with potentially dire consequences if not perfectly seated in the valve heads.
As you will see in the photos , these massively heavy ` dumb bell ` shaped piston valves make fettling our Corvette solid lifter or hydraulic valves look `small beer` by comparison .
Another step in the right direction has been the completion of the Superheater Header that I showed being set up on the boring machine in the 27th July post . This involved the machining of the steam pipe flange mating faces and the machining and fitting of new threaded fixing studs . This will then soon be fitted back in the boiler smoke box which will no doubt involve much heaving and cursing to get it lifted and bolted into the cramped confines of the smoke box . The purpose of the header being to collect the saturated steam from the boiler when the driver opens the regulator ( throttle in car terms ) and channel the steam back through rows of superheater elements that pass through the large flue tubes in the boiler to reheat the saturated steam to superheated steam and thus dramatically increase expansive properties and hence the pressure of the steam in the locos cylinders and thus more power .
Mad4slalom
Well-known user
I dabbled a bit with live steam in my younger years, before getting interested in internal combustion !I'm really glad I did the steam course, not just for the fab experience, but now when you (Chuffer) talk about all your fantastic steam work, I actually understand most of it. Keep up the good work
Chuffer
CCCUK Member
Me too , my first hands on experience of steam power was the very similar Maccano Steam Engine . I loved had great fun building it into traction engines made of Maccano and racing it down the street against my school chums one !! Imagine kids being let loose with pressurised boiler and metholated spirit burners these days !! The H&S warriors 
would have a fit !
would have a fit !
Chuffer
CCCUK Member
As threatened in ` What Have You Done Today ` , here is an update on the most recent activities on Thursday this week . As we have reached a bit of an impasse at the moment working on 30777 `Sir Lamiel` due to access to the lifting jacks being blocked by another locomotive undergoing overhaul , attention has returned to our other loco Stanier ` Black Five` 45305 which is also undergoing heavy overhaul after the boiler certificate expired in October 2021 . First a bit of background history . The `Black Fives` were numerous class of Mixed Traffic locos with a total of 842 being built between 1934 and 1951 and a hugely successful design by Sir William Stanier who was Chief Mechanical Engineer for the London Midland & Scottish Railway . They great all round work horses equally at home hauling heavy freight trains as well as express passenger trains and good for 90 mph . My personnel best experience being on the footplate of 45110 screaming through Warrington at 83mph on the West Coast Main Line !! They soon acquired the subriquet `Black Five ` as they all wore black livery with red and straw lining out and prior to nationalisation of the railways in 1948 had numbers commencing with a 5 and had a Class 5 tractive effort rating of 25,455 lbs. After 1948 the prefix 4 was added .
The boiler was lifted off two years ago and has all the tubes stripped out and awaits further attention , meanwhile we have stripped , cleaned and painted the insides of the locomotive frames in `Chassis Red ` . Thursdays task was the un glamorous but much needed job of hand polishing the coupling rods that connect the three pairs of 6 foot diameter drivings and the connecting rods , return cranks , radius rods etc that comprise the Walschaerts valve gear collectively known as " the motion " to remove the surface rust and preventing it really taking hold and causing pitting . This involved copious amounts of elbow grease with abrasive paper dipped in Kerosene to bring the forged steel components up to a bright finish A very smelly job !! The whole lot was then liberally sprayed with Swarfega ` Duck Oil` for protect it from the cold damp workshop environment over the coming months as the overhaul progresses . Note also the Smiths speedometer drive attached to the return crank on the trailing driving wheel axle. When built all locos rods and motion parts were stamped with with the locos number prior to assembly and it was interesting to note how many other `Black 5` numbers appeared during the rub down to show how much imterchanging of standardised parts took
place over the years of overhauls and repairs during its working life . Hopefully the hours spent polishing will ensure that 45305 can uphold the reputation it had as the best turned out `Black 5` in preservation when it returns to service and hauling main line charter trains again as the photo shows of her sporting her original LMS livery as 5305 .
The boiler was lifted off two years ago and has all the tubes stripped out and awaits further attention , meanwhile we have stripped , cleaned and painted the insides of the locomotive frames in `Chassis Red ` . Thursdays task was the un glamorous but much needed job of hand polishing the coupling rods that connect the three pairs of 6 foot diameter drivings and the connecting rods , return cranks , radius rods etc that comprise the Walschaerts valve gear collectively known as " the motion " to remove the surface rust and preventing it really taking hold and causing pitting . This involved copious amounts of elbow grease with abrasive paper dipped in Kerosene to bring the forged steel components up to a bright finish A very smelly job !! The whole lot was then liberally sprayed with Swarfega ` Duck Oil` for protect it from the cold damp workshop environment over the coming months as the overhaul progresses . Note also the Smiths speedometer drive attached to the return crank on the trailing driving wheel axle. When built all locos rods and motion parts were stamped with with the locos number prior to assembly and it was interesting to note how many other `Black 5` numbers appeared during the rub down to show how much imterchanging of standardised parts took
place over the years of overhauls and repairs during its working life . Hopefully the hours spent polishing will ensure that 45305 can uphold the reputation it had as the best turned out `Black 5` in preservation when it returns to service and hauling main line charter trains again as the photo shows of her sporting her original LMS livery as 5305 .
Roscobbc
Moderator
I find it interesting to 'conjure' where 'we' would all be with steam power if diesels engines and electric technology hadn't effectively taken over. Also given the current drive to reduce emissions.......could coal have been replaced with something else.
I've noticed that many of the engine classes, and individual engines are named after the designer or chief engineer responsible for producing the loco.........questions I have relating to that........what is really (as with Sir William Stanier) totally 'his' design........or the results of a whole team of engineers designing the engines and the Chief Engineer heading-up the deparment taking all the credit. Were people (like Sir William Stainier) awarded a knighthood because of their efforts (or team efforts) relating to the engine design........or was it simply (much as today) the 'old school tie brigade' taking the plum jobs and all the credit for the teams work.
I'd like to think that engineers, whatever their background only recieved recognition (such as knighthoods) due to individual efforts...........
I've noticed that many of the engine classes, and individual engines are named after the designer or chief engineer responsible for producing the loco.........questions I have relating to that........what is really (as with Sir William Stanier) totally 'his' design........or the results of a whole team of engineers designing the engines and the Chief Engineer heading-up the deparment taking all the credit. Were people (like Sir William Stainier) awarded a knighthood because of their efforts (or team efforts) relating to the engine design........or was it simply (much as today) the 'old school tie brigade' taking the plum jobs and all the credit for the teams work.
I'd like to think that engineers, whatever their background only recieved recognition (such as knighthoods) due to individual efforts...........