Are we still convinced that electric vehicles are the best way forward?

[Chuffer]

It’s like I said Chuffer it’s clinical and soulless but it ain’t a bad car by a long way and I constantly travel the country using the supercharger network without a single problem and save 10k a year the the short term greenie bonus it is for me. The disposal of any car ICE or Electric will have an impact on the environment. Ignorance is bliss for some.

I will continue to do my bit for the environment by driving my every day car , an SUV with its 5.7 Litre V8 . It is 16 years old , covered only 72K miles and has `wiped its face` carbon footprint wise probably twice over by now . Plus it`s fun to drive .

 

[Adtheman]

I will continue to do my bit for the environment by driving my every day car , an SUV with its 5.7 Litre V8 . It is 16 years old , covered only 72K miles and has `wiped its face` carbon footprint wise probably twice over by now . Plus it`s fun to drive .

I also run a very nice C3 and an Audi S5 convertible so I’m a true petrol head always have been, I also understand that the electric cars are not as green as some make out so I find myself a little in the middle here. There are pros and cons for both but tbh I do laugh about the idiots who bleat on about range anxiety what a crock of crap. It’s a case of the 6 p’s Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. You wouldn’t dream of doing a 1000 miles in an ice car without proper breaks or planning a stop for coffee or fuel. It’s exactly the same in an electric okay May take a little longer to charge but properly planned it’s a doddle. Plus you save a shit load of money

 

[Roscobbc]

Probably need to take yourself back to early motoring days when petrol was only available from roadside retailers (like cycle and hardware shops) in cans......there were very few roadside petrol dispensers....they would have been hand cranked.....probably not too much of an issue with queues, given the low numbers of cars in use. So you'd need to plan sourcing your fuel Monday to Friday, perhaps 8 or 9am through to 5pm? and be prepared to take a few cans with you if brave enough to take an extended trip somewhere......

 

[Chuffer]

I also run a very nice C3 and an Audi S5 convertible so I’m a true petrol head always have been, I also understand that the electric cars are not as green as some make out so I find myself a little in the middle here. There are pros and cons for both but tbh I do laugh about the idiots who bleat on about range anxiety what a crock of crap. It’s a case of the 6 p’s Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. You wouldn’t dream of doing a 1000 miles in an ice car without proper breaks or planning a stop for coffee or fuel. It’s exactly the same in an electric okay May take a little longer to charge but properly planned it’s a doddle. Plus you save a shit load of money

I bet your Lexus won`t still be running on the same battery in 6 years time never mind 16 years like my V8 Jeep running on its ICE . You will have probably bought several EV`s in 16 years as they gradually go a knacker bit by bit . Where is the shit load of saving then ???
The crux of the issue is that all us ICE owners are subsidising EV owners with our heavy fuel duties just to provide a short term fix to a long term problem !

 

[Roscobbc]

I bet your Lexus won`t still be running on the same battery in 6 years time never mind 16 years like my V8 Jeep running on its ICE . You will have probably bought several EV`s in 16 years as they gradually go a knacker bit by bit . Where is the shit load of saving then ???
The crux of the issue is that all us ICE owners are subsidising EV owners with our heavy fuel duties just to provide a short term fix to a long term problem !

Perhaps not an EV in the true sense but ever wondered why the UK's minicab and Uber drivers have gobbled up all of the Prius's in the country? - strangely not perhaps because the batteries are any better than anything else.......or because they last longer than other cars - no, mainly because once they are registered as a low emission vehicle (meaning possibly escaping congestion charges) and generally applicable for the rest of the vehicles lifetime. Despite Prius's being one of the most uncomfortable vehicles in its class they are extremely well built and will easily do a mileage of three or four hundred miles before major repairs are needed. Transfer that logic over to a Lexus and the same serviceability could still apply providing the second, third and forth owners are prepared to fork out for routine servicing. When Lexus/Toyota bring a full EV to market no doubt it will be a 'proper' thing.

 

[Chuffer]

Perhaps not an EV in the true sense but ever wondered why the UK's minicab and Uber drivers have gobbled up all of the Prius's in the country? - strangely not perhaps because the batteries are any better than anything else.......or because they last longer than other cars - no, mainly because once they are registered as a low emission vehicle (meaning possibly escaping congestion charges) and generally applicable for the rest of the vehicles lifetime. Despite Prius's being one of the most uncomfortable vehicles in its class they are extremely well built and will easily do a mileage of three or four hundred thousand miles before major repairs are needed. Transfer that logic over to a Lexus and the same serviceability could still apply providing the second, third and forth owners are prepared to fork out for routine servicing. When Lexus/Toyota bring a full EV to market no doubt it will be a 'proper' thing.

Only 3 or 4 hundred miles !! I think I will stick to walking !

 

[teamzr1]

BMW is recalling iX M60 and i4s electric vehicles due to irregularities in the Samsung-made batteries that can catch fire.
Owners have been asked to stop driving the cars and park them outside.

The iX M60 starts at 105,100 and the i4 just shy of $53,000, and those recalled were manufactured with high voltage battery that 'may have internal damage.'

The issue is impacting BMW iX SAV models built from 2022 to 2023 and i4 M50 vehicles produced between November 22, 2021, and July 30, 2022, according to a letter from BMW of North America sent to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).

 

[Chuffer]

BMW is recalling iX M60 and i4s electric vehicles due to irregularities in the Samsung-made batteries that can catch fire.
Owners have been asked to stop driving the cars and park them outside.

The iX M60 starts at 105,100 and the i4 just shy of $53,000, and those recalled were manufactured with high voltage battery that 'may have internal damage.'

The issue is impacting BMW iX SAV models built from 2022 to 2023 and i4 M50 vehicles produced between November 22, 2021, and July 30, 2022, according to a letter from BMW of North America sent to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).

Sez it all really don`t it !

 

[Chuffer]

Now try to convince me that EV`s are environmentally friendly . This is a field full `dead` EV`s that the French Government bought for their staff to whiz about in . All the batteries have died and are too costly to replace . That`s a hell of a lot of nasty stuff to dispose of , not to mention the cost !!

 

[teamzr1]

An electric Jaguar I-Pace car spontaneously caught fire and burned down to ashes in July.

The Florida-based vehicle owner told Elecktrek that he had left his car plugged into the charger on June 16 before he went to sleep.

The following day, Gonzalo Salazar returned to take the vehicle on a few errands, driving for around 12 miles before he returned home and put the vehicle back in the garage.
When Salazar headed inside, he began hearing pops from the garage. Curious about the strange noise, he went to the garage, only to see thick smoke emanating from within.

“My thought immediately was, ‘When there is smoke, there is fire,’ and I need to get the car out of the house garage,” Salazar said in his email to Elecktrek
Listening to his instinct, he drove the smoking vehicle out of the garage and onto the street in front of his home.
He then headed back inside to grab his phone and call Jaguar roadside assistance to take the vehicle to safety.

“When I ended the conversation with them there were more pops, but this time it was followed by fire from under the car. I then called 911 to come help with the situation,” Salazar wrote.

“But this was not a slow burn, once the fire started there were multiple pops, and the car was just engulfed in flames rapidly.”
Firefighters responding to the scene used flame retardant to douse the flames.
“There was debris flying everywhere, so I kept my distance,” Salazar said.

“After the fire department poured a special foam fire suppressant for what seemed a long time, the car was still making a humming sound coming from the front of the car.”
By the time the fire was put out, the vehicle was reduced to ash, with only some parts near the hood remaining partly burned, pictures shared by Elecktrek showed.

“Jaguar, on the other hand, is not being helpful at all, stating they need to complete their own investigation, but because of the risk of igniting the fire once again, they are unable to find a place where they can lift the car up, therefore their ‘investigation’ is on hold, and they are not taking any responsibility for what happened,” he said.

According to Elecktrek, the battery in Salazar’s car is the fourth such I-Pace battery to spontaneously catch fire.

Although according to the outlet, electric vehicle fires aren’t as prevalent as gasoline-based vehicle fires; however, electric vehicle battery fires are much harder to put out.

I-Pace vehicles use LG pouch battery cells. LG Chem battery cells have previously caused fires due to a defect in them in Chevrolet Bolt vehicles, forcing Chevrolet and Hyundai to issue product recalls to replace the batteries.

When asked by Electrek about any links between the four I-Pace fires and the LG batteries, Jaguar responded with a general statement that did not address the question.
“Jaguar Land Rover North America, LLC is committed to our customers’ safety, and we are aware of this I-PACE incident in Boynton Beach, Florida.”

“We have been in contact with and are cooperating with the customer’s insurance company expert regarding a vehicle inspection. JLRNA is unable to comment further on your questions until the investigation is completed.”

 

[theseoldcars]

Now try to convince me that EV`s are environmentally friendly . This is a field full `dead` EV`s that the French Government bought for their staff to whiz about in . All the batteries have died and are too costly to replace . That`s a hell of a lot of nasty stuff to dispose of , not to mention the cost !!View attachment 18552

Like a lot of electric vehicle news that's reported online, or on social media, just as a heads-up, that's not actually true. Those were from a Chinese car-sharing company that, like many of its type, was struggling. Sure, some of the cars were probably defective, but most were just parked up because the finances didn't stack up and the company was falling over.

There was a similar image circulated that did show an EV graveyard in France, and the associated text claimed they had all been parked up due to leaking and failing batteries. Except that, again, it wasn't the case; the company that operated them had gone bust. And, amusingly, they had really neat solid-state lithium-metal-polymer batteries, too. So, yeah, the chance of a leak was pretty low...

On a slight tangent, so far, most research indicates that the chance of an EV fire is lower than that in a conventional ICE vehicle, and also expected to be less common. But it's very early days; most outlets' data on that only goes back several years, so it's not appropriate for me to draw any conclusions at the moment.

They are unquestionably much harder to deal with once they're ablaze, mind, that much is true. But you just tend to see them highlighted in the news far more often, unlike the countless conventional cars that burn down every day, because they're a relatively new thing. Battery technology is evolving very quickly, so the number of thermal incidents will probably fall in the near future, and as the volume of EVs grows, the oft-overly dramatic reporting on such things will often tail off as well.

It's a similar story with recalls; they often sound dramatic, but manufacturers recall millions of conventional cars each year, too, and many of those recalls are for thermal issues, heh. Typically, the chance of a major failure is minimal; they're just doing what's necessary to ensure safety. As you'd hope, given the price you'll now pay for a new car...

There is definitely a discussion that needs to be had about the mix and availability of power types in the future, though, and their suitability for various markets. Too many markets are rushing to make a significant transition to EVs, in my eyes, and the legislation that's being rolled out might prove problematic in a lot of cases. Lots of benefits, sure, but a few potential pitfalls, too.

I do get the feeling that, realistically, it may happen more quickly than some may expect, given the push for it, and particularly once a significant chunk of people get used to the cleanliness and quietness of EVs. I now get that slight sense, in urban areas, that some are already acutely unhappy if a conventional diesel or petrol car rolls by, given the prominence of EVs in those places.

Interesting times, for sure.

 

[Roscobbc]

- Quote -
"There is definitely a discussion that needs to be had about the mix and availability of power types in the future, though, and their suitability for various markets. Too many markets are rushing to make a significant transition to EVs, in my eyes, and the legislation that's being rolled out might prove problematic in a lot of cases. Lots of benefits, sure, but a few potential pitfalls, too.

I do get the feeling that, realistically, it may happen more quickly than some may expect, particularly once a significant chunk of people get used to the cleanliness and quietness of EVs. I already get that slight sense, in urban areas, that some are already acutely unhappy if a conventional diesel or petrol car rolls by, now."

Can you imagine the potential panic that will set-in with potential users of fuel cell cars (if they ever come about) - the worry for many drivers of rolling around with a container of liquid hydrogen, pressurised to 100's of psi..........these worries didn't seem to stop followers and users of steam powered vehicles a 100 years or so ago. The thought of of all that super pressurised steam and perhaps petrol or kerosine for the burners perhaps leaking and catching fire......

 

[theseoldcars]

Can you imagine the potential panic that will set-in with potential users of fuel cell cars (if they ever come about) - the worry for many drivers of rolling around with a container of liquid hydrogen, pressurised to 100's of psi..........these worries didn't seem to stop followers and users of steam powered veghicle a 100 years or so ago. The thought of of all that super pressurised steam and perhaps petrol or kerosine for the burners perhaps leaking and catching fire......

I put a fair few miles on a Honda Clarity FCEV a few years ago, in Denmark. It was a real pleasure to drive and even refuelling wasn't that much of a bore, as there was a hydrogen station or two in the area we were in. But again, yea, only really appropriate if you lived in that area and weren't reaching outside of it significantly. I think Honda claimed a range of 300 miles in real-world conditions, but you certainly wouldn't want to test your luck with regards to finding a filling station if you were venturing into the wild. Very careful planning required...

Personally, I think hydrogen's a dead-end for passenger cars. Too complex and expensive, and you could just dodge a load of waste and inefficiency by just using any generated power to charge batteries, instead of creating hydrogen to fuel the things with, for one thing. And the tanks in the Clarity, similarly, only had a ten-year lifespan. I think they could be extended, but it at least required an inspection every two years. Understandable, given that they have to cope with 700 bar / ~10,000 psi.

Both Honda and Toyota seem to be wavering significantly over hydrogen, too, and they were the only real major proponents of it in recent history, off the top of my head. Although, that said, Toyota's still mucking around with hydrogen combustion, which BMW proved to be a complete no-go several years ago. Nothing like repeating a bit of history...

For commercial applications, though, such as long-distance trucking and construction vehicles, I think it may well find a use. And then you could probably easily justify using renewables to generate it, helping minimise the environmental issues.

 

[Chuffer]

And there`s little old me thinking you can believe everything you read in the media . I will have to put my sceptics hat back on again like when I hear about global warming and EV`s being the the greatest thing since sliced bread , etc etc . Maybe nothing is true any more .

 

[theseoldcars]

It really is a complete mess, unfortunately, in a lot of respects.

A lot of it's the result of social media; someone comes up with something, or something gets some attention, outlets dive on it because they need the traffic, the staff don't have the time or necessarily the inclination to check, due to whatever pressures, it gets thrown out there, everyone else jumps on the bandwagon...

... and then the revenue for the outlet slumps, because advertising isn't what it was and is often poorly utilised today, and sales tail off due to the poor article or media quality, so the staff gets thinned out, the demands ramp up, and the dive steepens and speeds up...

Bah! And then there's the quagmire of social media itself...

Anyway, I digress!

 

[Chuffer]

- Quote -
"There is definitely a discussion that needs to be had about the mix and availability of power types in the future, though, and their suitability for various markets. Too many markets are rushing to make a significant transition to EVs, in my eyes, and the legislation that's being rolled out might prove problematic in a lot of cases. Lots of benefits, sure, but a few potential pitfalls, too.

I do get the feeling that, realistically, it may happen more quickly than some may expect, particularly once a significant chunk of people get used to the cleanliness and quietness of EVs. I already get that slight sense, in urban areas, that some are already acutely unhappy if a conventional diesel or petrol car rolls by, now."

Can you imagine the potential panic that will set-in with potential users of fuel cell cars (if they ever come about) - the worry for many drivers of rolling around with a container of liquid hydrogen, pressurised to 100's of psi..........these worries didn't seem to stop followers and users of steam powered veghicle a 100 years or so ago. The thought of of all that super pressurised steam and perhaps petrol or kerosine for the burners perhaps leaking and catching fire......

There is nothing more exillerating than barrelling along at 80 mph on mobile bomb full of 250 psi super heating steam that can kill you in seconds and raging inferno at 3000 degrees F right in front of your face . Get it wrong at your peril though .

 

[Roscobbc]

I think there is a perfect case for both electric and ICE powered vehicles - an electric vehicle for inner city and suburban use where perhaps a range of 80/100 miles will suffice makes perfect sense - and should be significantly cheaper than an equivalent vehicles with perhaps 200 mile range.......but they are not significanty cheaper unfortunately, in fact pro rata more expensive than a ICE equivalent vehicle and here is where it where it all goes wrong........the small ICE powered car has effectively an unlimited range, only subject to the availability of filling stations - they'll win hands down anyway with typical full tank ranges of perhaps 350/450 miles.
Me personally?, yes I could use a small electric vehicle for 90% of my driving requirements. Its the 10% journeys that are the issue - so anywhere further than perhaps 40/45 miles from home in outer London I'd need to think about finding a charger somewhere......now with Khan's antic's to drive us all off the road my driving days in to London are all but finished.....so I'll generally be heading out of London and into the 'sticks' - now just try and find a charge point in a village or small town!

 

[teamzr1]

A young girl, an adult woman, and three dogs have been killed in an apartment fire in East Harlem today that officials say was sparked by the exploding battery of an electric bike.

Ericka Williams, 5, and Chanise Anderson, 36, were identified as the deceased victims after the fire broke out early on Wednesday in a sixth-floor apartment in the Jackie Robinson Houses on East 129th Street.
The young girl's father Eric Williams, 46, was hospitalized with severe burns, after witnesses said he fled from the apartment, but was unable to re-enter to assist his loved ones when the fire melted the door's locking mechanism.

The fire was contained to the victim's apartment, and investigators state that an e-bike parked near the door, inside their apartment, was the source of the blaze
Battery-powered E-bikes, which are popular with New York's massive fleet of delivery drivers, are a growing source of deadly fires, the FDNY has warned in recent weeks.

Emergency units rushed the young girl and her father to NYC Health & Hospitals/Harlem, where the child was pronounced dead, and the dad remains in critical condition.
Officials said that Anderson, the father's girlfriend, was taken to Lincoln Hospital, where she was pronounced dead.

So far this year in New York, five have died and 66 have been injured in fires sparked by lithium-ion batteries like the ones that power e-bikes, according to the FDNY.

The grave statistics led the New York City Fire Department (FDNY) to issue a stark warning to e-bike owners that urges them to stop using an overheating battery immediately and follow the manufacture's instructions for charging and storing.

 

[Adtheman]

I bet your Lexus won`t still be running on the same battery in 6 years time never mind 16 years like my V8 Jeep running on its ICE . You will have probably bought several EV`s in 16 years as they gradually go a knacker bit by bit . Where is the shit load of saving then ???
The crux of the issue is that all us ICE owners are subsidising EV owners with our heavy fuel duties just to provide a short term fix to a long term problem !

I don't run a Lexus so i wouldn't know but there's Model 3s out there with 400k miles on the same battery and still retaining 80% of their original range. I don't buy my work cars i lease them so i will continue to save shit loads as i swap every 3 years anyway. Theres been heavy fuel duties for as long as i can remember its got sod all to do with EVs and infrastructure.

 

[Chuffer]

Ok so a miss quote re the Lexus but HMG and the Mayor of London have certainly screwed ICE owners with Vehicle Road Tax and other fees to get everyone in to EV`s . Just find somewhere to plug one in and wait for it go up in flames !