C5 / C6 and ULEZ

C5Steve

CCCUK Member
Not quite true. There are at least 10/12 changes made to make them Euro compliant. That is why it is impossible for GM to issue a CoC for a US Spec car - it simply does not conform to Euro regs.
Apologies I wasn't quite clear, there are changes aside from the lights but not mechanical differences are they? I did see aside from the lighting there were tow hooks, number plate aperture changes and the different frequencies for the TPMS and Key fob along with a different outlet inisde. None of that affects the car's emissions though is my point, TFL don't care if my rear plate is a US-sized one as they've proved by sending me the ULEZ bills :ROFLMAO:
 

Roscobbc

Moderator
Interesting and I'll look into it, however, it's a moot point as I never ever plan to drive into the ULEZ zone again!
Pete - I live in the extended ULEZ zone - my C3 is exempt, I 'lashed-out' and was forced to buy a far newer daily driver that is compliant - I used to drive into central London several times a week for work purposes, would also drive in at weekends or evenings for pleasure/shopping/restaurants etc..........have little desire to do this now given what respectively Livingstone, Boris Johnson, Sadiq Khan and lefty, faux greenie, red/commie London Boroughs have to vehicular travel in London.
Couple that with the de-regulation and dismantling of the black cab trade (inititated by Cameron) and accordingly the spectre of thousands of non-english speaking Uber Toyota Prius's and similar cars filling central Londons roads in the evenings and the empty cycle routes reducing road space all creating additional congestion and pollution.......no its not a place I choose to be any more.
 

Chevrolet

CCCUK Member
Interesting and I'll look into it, however, it's a moot point as I never ever plan to drive into the ULEZ zone again!
Just for completeness/accuracy, I need to correct what I said above on two points. 1) You have a 1999 (2000 model year) Euro C5, not a 2001 like Colins 2) There IS a spreadsheet on that VCA website for 2000 (July). That has 2 rows a) Corvette Coupe/Convertible Manual "A" Pack and b) Corvette Coupe/Convertible Manual "B" Pack. Never heard of "A" and "B" packs before, does that make sense to anyone? And no automatic listed?
It says "Euro Standard" 11 (Euro 2) which according to the RAC website was:

Euro 2 emissions standards (petrol)
CO: 2.2g/km
HC + NOx: 0.5g/km

Spreadsheet lists the CO emissions for an "A" Pack manual as 1.003 (just over the 1.00 Euro 4 maximum). But its only 0.545 for a "B" Pack car (?). It lists the HC + NOx as 0.256 (A Pack) or 0.278 (B Pack). Against HC and NOX separately listed it just has 0 (Zero). Conclusion? You tell me? TFL (VSA) dont have any separate data/readings for HC and NOx on a 2000 car, so they dont know if the car is Euro 4 compliant?
 
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Pitre

Chairman, CCCUK.
Found this, but it's hearsay so I don't know if it's actually correct:-
"In european cars the a-pack effectively was the base set of options and the major parts of the b-pack meant adding the split sided climate control and whizzier seats"
"Every car sold was with sports seats as standard in the UK as B pack cars the A pack was the basic seats and No HUD. I have never seen one for sale. The non sports seat cars are the US spec imports."
"B pack cars had 3 parts to the seat. and the Word Corvette in the seat and the memory package too"
 
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Chevrolet

CCCUK Member
What's funny is that the DVLA have emissions limits for each of our cars to pass our MOTs. And at the MOTs they also measure our emissions too. So surely they could use that data to see if our cars are actually compliant?

Take for example my 1994 FTO. I haven't seen the emissions details for years now, since the MOTs have gone paperless and you don't get the readings, but I'm sure my previous paper MOTs had readings that show its less than the readings above. Definitely for CO, but can't remember the others. Might have to try and find some of the old paper MOTs. Fail that, its MOT is due soon so I might just ask them for the readings.
Had to take the the "daily driver" for its MoT today, so asked 'the guy on the desk" about the MoT emission testing. They only give out printouts of the emission readings to the customer if the car has failed the emissions test. When they put the cars reg# into the system, that brings up the test emission max allowed readings for it. He thought that just testing CO for a petrol car, but looking at the web, they are testing both CO & HC. Per the .Gov testers guide I found:

"Basic Emissions Test procedure (BET)

The basic emissions test is applied to all petrol fuelled vehicles first used on or after 1 August 1992. Despite its name this test is primarily aimed at identifying, and assessing emissions from, vehicles with advanced emissions control systems such as three-way catalytic converters. The test uses EC minimum in service emission limits for modern cars.

For cars subject to this procedure emissions are assessed during two separate tests. As the procedure is more complicated than the non-catalyst test, the emissions analysers include computer software aimed at guiding the Tester through the test sequence. The primary reason for the introduction of these meters is to ensure that the car is tested accurately.

The first test consists of checking the emissions at ’fast-idle speed’ which involves running the engine at a speed of 2500 - 3000 rpm. During this test the emissions of CO and HC will be checked and a further check will be made on the lambda value. The second test consists of a check of emissions at ‘normal idle speed’ in which the engine will idle between 450 and 1500rpm, but in this case only the CO emissions are assessed.

The emissions limits to be met are specified for both the fast and normal idle tests. At fast idle, CO must be at or less than 0.2%, HC at or less than 200 parts per million (ppm), and the lambda value must be between 0.97 and 1.03. At normal idle, CO must be at or less than 0.3%.

Where these limits are not met, a check will be made to identify vehicles (e.g. those without a catalyst) which should only be required to meet the non-catalyst emissions check requirements. If the vehicle does not fall into this category then the analyser will automatically schedule an extended emissions test using the values quoted in Table 1 or Table 2 and the listings in the Annex in this booklet"

Bit confusing that above CO and HC figures are %/Volume or PPM, whereas the Euro 4 limits are g/km? Guide has at end listing of cars, including Corvette LS1, showing their fast & normal idle emission/lambda figures. Doesn't list a FTO in the list of Mitsubishi cars.
 
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CaptainK

CCCUK Member
Doesn't list a FTO in the list of Mitsubishi cars.
I think the FTO normally comes under "Ralliart" (Mitsi's "sport" brand) as the only official FTOs are the 1999 - 2001 (I think) Ralliart FTOs that were officially imported by Mitsubishi. Everything else is a grey import and sometimes doesn't show up. Mine is a 1994 FTO (first year made) and I have vague recollections in the past that it has been MOT'd as a Ralliart 2001 or something.
 

Chevrolet

CCCUK Member
I think the FTO normally comes under "Ralliart" (Mitsi's "sport" brand) as the only official FTOs are the 1999 - 2001 (I think) Ralliart FTOs that were officially imported by Mitsubishi. Everything else is a grey import and sometimes doesn't show up. Mine is a 1994 FTO (first year made) and I have vague recollections in the past that it has been MOT'd as a Ralliart 2001 or something.
Am sure you are right. Can't find a FTO and/or Ralliart listed on the Vehicle Certification Agency (VCA) list of 2000 cars. Found this comment in an ad for a UK Lancer EVO:
"From May 1999, UK cars were imported by Mitsubishi Motors and prepared by Ralliart UK (a new company offering closer ties with the UK importer that saw the opening of a small number of Ralliart dealers; even cars sold through Ralliart UK were still subject to Single Vehicle Approval (SVA), which was carried out on behalf of customers)"
No doubt next time you take yours for an MoT, you might be asking the garage/testers about how they determine/test the emission levels for your car and what they are? ;)
 

CaptainK

CCCUK Member
No doubt next time you take yours for an MoT, you might be asking the garage/testers about how they determine/test the emission levels for your car and what they are? ;)
Previously I was told it was the Ralliart circa 1999-2001 models they found in the MOT book that they used. Which was bummer back in my bad days as I ran a decat. So I'd have to remind them mine was 1994 and an import not on their system and due to X loophole they had to test it as a pre August 1995 "no cat" test. That loophole I'm told has long been closed now and I've been running a cat for years now. I suspect they just run a standard "CAT" test on all of them.

Anyway, coincidentally the FTO is in for MOT right now - and amusingly failed on emissions. But only because the flexipipe on it is blowing and thus throwing out the lambda sensor. If I remember (horrendously bad memory), I'll ask them about it when I pick it up later.

As for the Vehicle Certification of Cars, I "think" Ralliart imported FTOs just like the grey importers did, effectively I think they were all SVA'd, but as it was through their own Ralliart brand it was "official". I can't remember, it was many years back now when I used to fill my head with these exciting things. The main thing is that the FTO was only ever made for the Jap domestic market and was never intended to be sold in any other country.
 

CaptainK

CCCUK Member
Update on FTO MOT: They just told me that because its a "pre-August/September 1995" car that they just do a standard emissions test for that age of car. So I guess they don't look it up on the book. It all passed fine - the only issue I had was the quite obvious hole in my downpipe flexipipe that anyone nearby would hear and immediately knew was buggered :ROFLMAO:
 
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