LED headlights

Chuffer

CCCUK Member
There’s an article about lighting upgrades in the current issue of Car Mechanic magazine.
You might already know this…..It mentions that there is the same issue with LED headlamps as there was with HID in that the Halogen/ filament type reflectors will not control the light pattern correctly. There is now a note in the MOT testers handbook to include LEDs as well as HID bulbs retrofitted in halogen reflectors are a fail - “light source and lamp not compatible” they call the “reflector” the “lamp” if I’m understanding all this correctly.

I‘m finding that I’m being dazzled by oncoming cars or distracted by super bright headlights in cars behind me more often than ever these days and it’s nearly always new or nearly cars….not sure what regulations they’re working to? Often seems to be all-electric cars, Teslas in particular have intensely bright headlights. There’s lots more pickup truck and SUV style vehicles on the road nowadays with the headlights mounted higher up in the first place perhaps adds to the problem?
I am totally agree about the dazzle from modern cars , it is making driving at night a real pain these days . Even being perched up higher in my Jeep doesn`t help and being a 2006 model with original spec headlights I ain`t going dazzle anyone as there are as dim as candles on dipped beam compared to new vehicles .
 

CaptainK

CCCUK Member
There’s an article about lighting upgrades in the current issue of Car Mechanic magazine.
You might already know this…..It mentions that there is the same issue with LED headlamps as there was with HID in that the Halogen/ filament type reflectors will not control the light pattern correctly. There is now a note in the MOT testers handbook to include LEDs as well as HID bulbs retrofitted in halogen reflectors are a fail - “light source and lamp not compatible” they call the “reflector” the “lamp” if I’m understanding all this correctly.
Yes, I read about that many moons ago for my FTO which I retrofitted with HIDs, which was fine MOT time as it has projector lenses and HID was a factory option. HIDs didn't help much though, nor do the fancy expensive halogens it now has, as the light clusters aren't great for output anyway, and its very low to the ground so the light doesn't go far.

LEDs wise, I read an article recently that said there was an amendment to allow LED lights retrofitted in cars made before 1986 or 1985, I forget which. The idea I guess being to allow better lights on older cars that traditionally would be pathetic. Hadn't heard it before, so dunno about the truth about it (it is the internet after all). Something to check out in greater detail if / when I decide to upgrade the lights. I'll probably go with RHD style H4 bulb conversion lenses, and put H4 LED bulbs in it (the classic car LED website linked above has them as an option).

The last thing I want to do is dazzle people - like others said above, its annoying that all new cars dazzle the heck out of me, and its made worse when I'm in the low slung sports cars and they are in high up SUVs.
 

Roscobbc

Moderator
I've noticed that mant of the veteran car guys are using LED's for sidelights etc.......kinda look out of place when looking closely but I guess have to be a sensible and reversible upgrade perhaps with 6 volt lighting or an early Acetelene lighting set!
 

Steven Smith

CCCUK Member
I don't know much about your lighting requirements but I used this guide when getting my C4 back on the road:

I can also confirm that Classic Car LEDs Ltd are very good to deal with, their products are not cheap but very high quality and have some good technical advice on their website.
 

Forrest Gump

CCCUK regional rep
LEDs wise, I read an article recently that said there was an amendment to allow LED lights retrofitted in cars made before 1986 or 1985, I forget which. The idea I guess being to allow better lights on older cars that traditionally would be pathetic. Hadn't heard it before, so dunno about the truth about it (it is the internet after all). Something to check out in greater detail if / when I decide to upgrade the lights. I'll probably go with RHD style H4 bulb conversion lenses, and put H4 LED bulbs in it (the classic car LED website linked above has them as an option).

The last thing I want to do is dazzle people - like others said above, its annoying that all new cars dazzle the heck out of me, and its made worse when I'm in the low slung sports cars and they are in high up SUVs.


I’ve just looked on Steve’s link to the MOT Manual…..here’s the paragraph that exempts C3’s and early C4s.


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Forrest Gump

CCCUK regional rep
I read on Hella’s website that LED brake lights can prevent collisions!!!!!!
A filament bulb can take up to 0.2 seconds to reach full brightness whereas an LED is instant. That 0.2 seconds delay in the reaction of the driver behind you equates to more distance travelled, and therefore wether they are able to stop or not before runnning into the back of you.
If the driver behind keeps the correct distance behind you, that is also effective in avoiding running into the back of you of course!
 

CaptainK

CCCUK Member
Ah... so I wasn't going crazy about the "before 1986 is ok" rule. Thanks.

I've been looking at various LED kits, and also H4 replacements via websites like Classic Car LEDs, and they all look good. The one problem that people seem to talk about is whether or not the LED replacements will fit into the C3's headlight buckets. I wonder how much space we have? I might have to pester Classic Car LEDs at some point to see what they say.
 

Steven Smith

CCCUK Member
I read on Hella’s website that LED brake lights can prevent collisions!!!!!!
A filament bulb can take up to 0.2 seconds to reach full brightness whereas an LED is instant. That 0.2 seconds delay in the reaction of the driver behind you equates to more distance travelled, and therefore wether they are able to stop or not before runnning into the back of you.
If the driver behind keeps the correct distance behind you, that is also effective in avoiding running into the back of you of course!
When fitting LEDs to your brake or indicators you shouldn't use white / clear LEDs as the spectrum of light they emit is different and the lights will look very "washed out", fit red LEDs to brake lights and amber LEDs to indicators.
This explains it in more detail:
 

Adtheman

Well-known user
Indeed, I re-read the Xenon and H4 bulb replacement thread we have on this forum before I posted. I have vague memories of it having LED RHD info, but my memory was wrong - it was just sealed beam "normal" bulb replacements for RHD. So I thought I'd ask about anyone use LED replacements.

I'm currently using those 50% brighter Xenon bulbs in my FTO. Previously I had a set of aftermarket HID lights installed into them (projector lenses in FTOs as HID was a factory option). But I wasn't really convinced with HID, so went back to the upgraded Xenons (OSRAMS I think I'm using) which are better.

I've looked at a few now, and interesting most of the kits use the same bulb for all four "holes" in the headlights, where they are all "dipped" and "main". Might be cool having all 4 Corvette lights come on in dipped mode. I could use Xenons on the Corvette, but I just fancy trying something different, and hence the LEDs.
I changed all mine for halogen H4 recently and used a conversion kit which was easy, to have all 4 on dipped and on main beam, the difference pardon the pun is night and day. it also keeps them looking original but a lot more useable.
 

CaptainK

CCCUK Member
I changed all mine for halogen H4 recently and used a conversion kit which was easy, to have all 4 on dipped and on main beam, the difference pardon the pun is night and day. it also keeps them looking original but a lot more useable.
Which kit did you use for your conversion? And how does the wiring / electrical hold out with all 4 on dipped and main with Halogens? I've been in contact with Duncan at Classic Car LEDs and he's given me some advice. So in the new year I'm hoping to try a set of H4 reflector conversions with an LED dipped/main bulb in them. The only issue I can't resolve in my mind is whether to keep with the classic lights look of 3000k "yellow" lights, or go for the modern 6000k "cool white" look. I'm torn, as the cool white would look good and modern, but not sure whether it'd work on a 60s car. I'm currently thinking go for the 6000k anyway and give it a go.
 

Roscobbc

Moderator
Which kit did you use for your conversion? And how does the wiring / electrical hold out with all 4 on dipped and main with Halogens? I've been in contact with Duncan at Classic Car LEDs and he's given me some advice. So in the new year I'm hoping to try a set of H4 reflector conversions with an LED dipped/main bulb in them. The only issue I can't resolve in my mind is whether to keep with the classic lights look of 3000k "yellow" lights, or go for the modern 6000k "cool white" look. I'm torn, as the cool white would look good and modern, but not sure whether it'd work on a 60s car. I'm currently thinking go for the 6000k anyway and give it a go.
Compare yer LED's (as fitted to cars) with domestic LED installations. Walk past any modern or recently refurbished older property at night and what do you often see? - overlit rooms. So, no curtains to start with, so everything on full display (no modesty here!) and usually a proliferation of 'cool white' LED downlighters that although individually of low energy consumption to perhaps 'show off' their tacky furniture, ornaments and multi-shade eggshell grey paintwork........they will have perhaps 15 or 20 of these ultra bright LED's (probably totaling a far higher energy footprint than the 'old school' tungsten filament lamps they would have used some years back). So you'll have a family sitting in their lounge, bathed in close to blinding 'cool white' lighting with their 76" OLED TV cranked-up on full brightness with the colour pallete also turned-up full........
In short Capt' 'warm white' 3000k lighting is far more appropriate for a 'period' vehicle than higher 'k' figures...........leave the 'cool white' vehicle lighting for the AH's in the town-only driven 4X4's and Chelsea tractors.......
 

johng

CCCUK Member
Which kit did you use for your conversion? And how does the wiring / electrical hold out with all 4 on dipped and main with Halogens? I've been in contact with Duncan at Classic Car LEDs and he's given me some advice. So in the new year I'm hoping to try a set of H4 reflector conversions with an LED dipped/main bulb in them. The only issue I can't resolve in my mind is whether to keep with the classic lights look of 3000k "yellow" lights, or go for the modern 6000k "cool white" look. I'm torn, as the cool white would look good and modern, but not sure whether it'd work on a 60s car. I'm currently thinking go for the 6000k anyway and give it a go.
You'd probably need to fit a relay if you were going to fit 4 H4 halogens (I had to when I fitted 2 H4s and 2 H1s), but as it looks like you going LED then presumably this is much lower wattage and hence no problem
 

Forrest Gump

CCCUK regional rep
Compare yer LED's (as fitted to cars) with domestic LED installations. Walk past any modern or recently refurbished older property at night and what do you often see? - overlit rooms. So, no curtains to start with, so everything on full display (no modesty here!) and usually a proliferation of 'cool white' LED downlighters that although individually of low energy consumption to perhaps 'show off' their tacky furniture, ornaments and multi-shade eggshell grey paintwork........they will have perhaps 15 or 20 of these ultra bright LED's (probably totaling a far higher energy footprint than the 'old school' tungsten filament lamps they would have used some years back). So you'll have a family sitting in their lounge, bathed in close to blinding 'cool white' lighting with their 76" OLED TV cranked-up on full brightness with the colour pallete also turned-up full........
In short Capt' 'warm white' 3000k lighting is far more appropriate for a 'period' vehicle than higher 'k' figures...........leave the 'cool white' vehicle lighting for the AH's in the town-only driven 4X4's and Chelsea tractors.......
This is Essex Ross 🤣🤣
 

Adtheman

Well-known user
Which kit did you use for your conversion? And how does the wiring / electrical hold out with all 4 on dipped and main with Halogens? I've been in contact with Duncan at Classic Car LEDs and he's given me some advice. So in the new year I'm hoping to try a set of H4 reflector conversions with an LED dipped/main bulb in them. The only issue I can't resolve in my mind is whether to keep with the classic lights look of 3000k "yellow" lights, or go for the modern 6000k "cool white" look. I'm torn, as the cool white would look good and modern, but not sure whether it'd work on a 60s car. I'm currently thinking go for the 6000k anyway and give it a go.
Which kit did you use for your conversion? And how does the wiring / electrical hold out with all 4 on dipped and main with Halogens? I've been in contact with Duncan at Classic Car LEDs and he's given me some advice. So in the new year I'm hoping to try a set of H4 reflector conversions with an LED dipped/main bulb in them. The only issue I can't resolve in my mind is whether to keep with the classic lights look of 3000k "yellow" lights, or go for the modern 6000k "cool white" look. I'm torn, as the cool white would look good and modern, but not sure whether it'd work on a 60s car. I'm currently thinking go for the 6000k anyway and give it a go.
Don't go down the cool white or led jobbies I used a H4 kit from CK which has all the re
Which kit did you use for your conversion? And how does the wiring / electrical hold out with all 4 on dipped and main with Halogens? I've been in contact with Duncan at Classic Car LEDs and he's given me some advice. So in the new year I'm hoping to try a set of H4 reflector conversions with an LED dipped/main bulb in them. The only issue I can't resolve in my mind is whether to keep with the classic lights look of 3000k "yellow" lights, or go for the modern 6000k "cool white" look. I'm torn, as the cool white would look good and modern, but not sure whether it'd work on a 60s car. I'm currently thinking go for the 6000k anyway and give it a go.
i used a kit supplied by CK for the wiring conversion with the relays and everything you need. I’m no auto electric guy so this worked really well for me. Then bought the new lights and H4 bulbs. Nice easy tidy job .
FDE85DB8-6BD6-442F-B816-E9BAA73C4544.jpegC8A1E03B-F66E-4E8D-8D44-43D5106C0260.jpeg
 

CaptainK

CCCUK Member
Compare yer LED's (as fitted to cars) with domestic LED installations. Walk past any modern or recently refurbished older property at night and what do you often see? - overlit rooms. So, no curtains to start with, so everything on full display (no modesty here!) and usually a proliferation of 'cool white' LED downlighters that although individually of low energy consumption to perhaps 'show off' their tacky furniture, ornaments and multi-shade eggshell grey paintwork........they will have perhaps 15 or 20 of these ultra bright LED's (probably totaling a far higher energy footprint than the 'old school' tungsten filament lamps they would have used some years back). So you'll have a family sitting in their lounge, bathed in close to blinding 'cool white' lighting with their 76" OLED TV cranked-up on full brightness with the colour pallete also turned-up full........
In short Capt' 'warm white' 3000k lighting is far more appropriate for a 'period' vehicle than higher 'k' figures...........leave the 'cool white' vehicle lighting for the AH's in the town-only driven 4X4's and Chelsea tractors.......
I see you're a massive fan of 6000k / cool white LEDs then? :ROFLMAO:

I have LEDs throughout my house, and as the bulbs are cheap I experimented with lots of different colour / temperature ranges to see what I preferred. For me personally, I've found around 5000k is good for bathrooms and kitchen, then "classic" 2.7k / 3k "yellow" lights are better elsewhere. Also you shouldn't have "blue" lights in bedrooms as apparently it mucks up your sleeping. Each to their own though. But if you wanted to know about my lounge - sadly its only an old normal LED TV, and sadly only 55 inch. It does have 10 tiny LED bulbs around it that are 5w each, so 50w total, and for this size of lounge you'd need at least two old school bulbs at 50w each each. The whole system is on a dimmer which I keep fairly low to be honest.

As for the Vette though, yeah that's the debate going on in my mind. "Yellow" is what a classic is all about, but part of me wants to try 6000k whiter lights and see what it looks like. Shame the bulbs are so expensive, and not the £5 for household bulbs, as otherwise I'd just get a set of "cool white" and give it a go anyway. Still probably will though..... or be really controversial and put "yellow" in one set and put "white" in the other set to even out the colour range :eek::ROFLMAO:
 

Roscobbc

Moderator
I see you're a massive fan of 6000k / cool white LEDs then? :ROFLMAO:

I have LEDs throughout my house, and as the bulbs are cheap I experimented with lots of different colour / temperature ranges to see what I preferred. For me personally, I've found around 5000k is good for bathrooms and kitchen, then "classic" 2.7k / 3k "yellow" lights are better elsewhere. Also you shouldn't have "blue" lights in bedrooms as apparently it mucks up your sleeping. Each to their own though. But if you wanted to know about my lounge - sadly its only an old normal LED TV, and sadly only 55 inch. It does have 10 tiny LED bulbs around it that are 5w each, so 50w total, and for this size of lounge you'd need at least two old school bulbs at 50w each each. The whole system is on a dimmer which I keep fairly low to be honest.

As for the Vette though, yeah that's the debate going on in my mind. "Yellow" is what a classic is all about, but part of me wants to try 6000k whiter lights and see what it looks like. Shame the bulbs are so expensive, and not the £5 for household bulbs, as otherwise I'd just get a set of "cool white" and give it a go anyway. Still probably will though..... or be really controversial and put "yellow" in one set and put "white" in the other set to even out the colour range :eek::ROFLMAO:
It's just a 'thing' of mine really.......spent years designing lighting control systems for domestic and commercial applications and irritated by the blanket approach to internal lighting that 90% of builders, installers and most suppliers take. Yes, cool white for bathrooms and perhaps kitchens but 'er indoors will get her make-up all wrong when she goes out in the 'open air' and the cooked meal when served on the table will looked washed out. Warm white is closest to natural light, i.e daylight and good old fashioned (extinct perhaps) did a good job of replicating that. On a vehicle it doesn't really matter does it?.......but can look odd when side lights/day time running lights/spot or fog lights are of a different 'colour'.
 

CaptainK

CCCUK Member
Ah, didn't know you worked in lighting control systems. Good stuff. My domestic designs are all fudgery of buying cheap bulbs or sealed lights and giving them a go to see what they look like :ROFLMAO:
 

Roscobbc

Moderator
Ah, didn't know you worked in lighting control systems. Good stuff. My domestic designs are all fudgery of buying cheap bulbs or sealed lights and giving them a go to see what they look like :ROFLMAO:
TBH LED lamps are a curse if using a lighting control system (which would primarily dim and scene-set specific multiple lighting circuits in a room or whole house)
Problem with LED's (all LED's) is that each one have its very own individual and specific electronic circuitry......which you are trying to control from another totally different form of circuitry........what can go wrong (everything). We've been 'sold' the supposed world saving benefits of low energy LED lighting which costs many times that of old school filament lamps........no always so economical unfortunately.
 
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