Oil of choice

Chuffer

CCCUK Member
I always buy 5 litres of Valvoline VR1 20 W 50 for around £32 with free delivery on Ebay . The guy that looks after and rebuilds all the classic race cars where I rent storage for the Corvette says it is the right stuff and he has a lifetime of experience with race and rally cars including a 1965 Mustang V8 , so it`s good enough for me (y)
 

HJG

CCCUK Member
I ran Bmw M cars for several years and the mantra was you had to use only Castrol oil labelled as specified for bmw M engines , which we all did religiously, ( and paid a premium for ) Then Bmw did a deal with Shell and suddenly we Had to use shell oils ?? A technical change or possibly a chat and a handshake on a golf course somewhere , who knows?

Ah the common OEM / oil manufacturer partnership. I'll offer some insight into this as I'm currently working at the forefront of switching oils at an OEM.

In this example, the engines have been developed on 'Oil A' and in the field for ~ 10years. 'Oil A' is factory fill and recommended in the owners book etc.
Marketing decide on a new partnership opportunity. Tell engineering that 'Oil A' will now be replaced by 'Oil B' and that the change will happen ASAP.
Engineering put the brakes on this immediately and provide marketing with a validation plan and timeframe and explain that changing the oil suddenly like this is like giving somebody a blood transfusion without knowing what blood type they are.

Engineering set about understanding all the characteristics of 'Oil B' and ensure it is comparable at least on paper to 'Oil A'. The most important things are cold and hot viscosity for oil pressure, oil film thickness ( bearing loads, friction models, emissions), low ash content for GPF equipped engines, protection for low speed pre-ignition, thermal conductivity & specific heat capacity, total base number and the additive pack.

Only once these are understood and the risks assessed can physical engine testing begin. This typically begins on a dyno and the engine completes identical tests with 'Oil A' and 'Oil B', comparing parameters such as oil flow rates, heat rejection, oil pressure and friction. The oil is analysed throughout the test to assess the wear metals present, fuel dilution, viscosity and total base number.

This then gives the confidence to run this oil on more test engines and engines in vehicles, which will run different cycles as defined in the validation plan. Constant oil analysis is carried out and when the engines/vehicles have completed their tests the engines are stripped and all the components analysed to ensure there is no abnormal/excessive wear.

Once 'Oil B' is signed off from engineering, it becomes the factory fill oil.
It is an in-depth and expensive process but one that is so important.
As has been mentioned previously, it is usually always the valvetrain that suffers from excess wear. It is a tough environment with more boundary level lubrication than anywhere else in the engine. This is usually where the additive pack is really working hard and one needs to understand the level of protection they're getting from the additive pack, and if it is right for their engine.
Journal bearings are usually most sensitive to oil viscosity and this needs to be properly understood.

So yes, OEMs can and do change oil partnerships but there is a lot of engineering work in the background.
Remember also that OEMs may not necessarily use the 'best' oil available, but it is the oil developed for that engine.

For our 50 year old engines in our Vettes I think we can safely assume that all modern oils are superior to what Chevrolet developed these engines with but as pointed out by somebody else, watch the ZDDP levels as modern oils are reducing this in favour of protecting exhaust after treatment :sleep:. This is part of the reason behind increased use of DLC in modern engines.
 

Roscobbc

Moderator
Ah the common OEM / oil manufacturer partnership. I'll offer some insight into this as I'm currently working at the forefront of switching oils at an OEM.

In this example, the engines have been developed on 'Oil A' and in the field for ~ 10years. 'Oil A' is factory fill and recommended in the owners book etc.
Marketing decide on a new partnership opportunity. Tell engineering that 'Oil A' will now be replaced by 'Oil B' and that the change will happen ASAP.
Engineering put the brakes on this immediately and provide marketing with a validation plan and timeframe and explain that changing the oil suddenly like this is like giving somebody a blood transfusion without knowing what blood type they are.

Engineering set about understanding all the characteristics of 'Oil B' and ensure it is comparable at least on paper to 'Oil A'. The most important things are cold and hot viscosity for oil pressure, oil film thickness ( bearing loads, friction models, emissions), low ash content for GPF equipped engines, protection for low speed pre-ignition, thermal conductivity & specific heat capacity, total base number and the additive pack.

Only once these are understood and the risks assessed can physical engine testing begin. This typically begins on a dyno and the engine completes identical tests with 'Oil A' and 'Oil B', comparing parameters such as oil flow rates, heat rejection, oil pressure and friction. The oil is analysed throughout the test to assess the wear metals present, fuel dilution, viscosity and total base number.

This then gives the confidence to run this oil on more test engines and engines in vehicles, which will run different cycles as defined in the validation plan. Constant oil analysis is carried out and when the engines/vehicles have completed their tests the engines are stripped and all the components analysed to ensure there is no abnormal/excessive wear.

Once 'Oil B' is signed off from engineering, it becomes the factory fill oil.
It is an in-depth and expensive process but one that is so important.
As has been mentioned previously, it is usually always the valvetrain that suffers from excess wear. It is a tough environment with more boundary level lubrication than anywhere else in the engine. This is usually where the additive pack is really working hard and one needs to understand the level of protection they're getting from the additive pack, and if it is right for their engine.
Journal bearings are usually most sensitive to oil viscosity and this needs to be properly understood.

So yes, OEMs can and do change oil partnerships but there is a lot of engineering work in the background.
Remember also that OEMs may not necessarily use the 'best' oil available, but it is the oil developed for that engine.

For our 50 year old engines in our Vettes I think we can safely assume that all modern oils are superior to what Chevrolet developed these engines with but as pointed out by somebody else, watch the ZDDP levels as modern oils are reducing this in favour of protecting exhaust after treatment :sleep:. This is part of the reason behind increased use of DLC in modern engines.
One thing that 'irriates' as an end user of these products is the oil manufacturers/suppliers who minimise their statements (and perhaps liability) and state their oils are suitable for older engines and then follow-on with the 'in and outs' of a cats sphincter about how their lubricants have been formulated and 'specially' deleveloped for classic and flat tappet engines yet fail completely to give any further information about the ZDDP content, other than perhaps to say something like "formulated with ZDDP content suitable for older and 'classic' engines" or "formulated with ingredients suitable for 'classic' engines" - sorry suppliers, if you don't state the PPM content I won't be buying - if I was Celiac and shopping in a supermarket for food I'd reasonably expect to see ingredient percentages etc on the food labelling.
 

HJG

CCCUK Member
One thing that 'irriates' as an end user of these products is the oil manufacturers/suppliers who minimise their statements (and perhaps liability) and state their oils are suitable for older engines and then follow-on with the 'in and outs' of a cats sphincter about how their lubricants have been formulated and 'specially' deleveloped for classic and flat tappet engines yet fail completely to give any further information about the ZDDP content, other than perhaps to say something like "formulated with ZDDP content suitable for older and 'classic' engines" or "formulated with ingredients suitable for 'classic' engines" - sorry suppliers, if you don't state the PPM content I won't be buying - if I was Celiac and shopping in a supermarket for food I'd reasonably expect to see ingredient percentages etc on the food labelling.

The reality is that not enough of the consumers are knowledgeable enough for the manufacture to be handing out this information - Joe Public will just be attracted to the 'highest number', which is not how it works with oils. The shopworker would also have no idea what somebody was on about if they walked in and asked for "1000 ZDDPs", because they'd seen on the internet this is a good number.

That being said, a specialist brand will list it out and others will provide it to you if you happen to get through to the right person upon your enquiry.

Something else that is interesting to get from the manufacture is the cold and hot viscosity. The SAE bands are quite wide and they overlap. Mainstream oils tend to lean on the thin side for friction and fuel economy. More specialist oils lean on the thicker side for better oil films and pressure, in my experience at least.
 

Mad4slalom

Well-known user
Do most oils contain zinc ? And what are its benefits, ?
Went for fuchs pro S 5/30 full synthetic with 12-1400 ppm zinc. Watched a test on cheap brand and top quality oil filters too , liked the reviews and points on the K &N knn hp 2002 so one of those on the way too. Easy to spend money on these vettes Hey ? 😩😂
 

Chuffer

CCCUK Member
I personally have misgivings about using synthetic after all the research I did . That`s why I went with Valvoline VR1 . It has the right amount of ZDDP in it and is recommended for older design of engines ans is race proven provided you change at no more than 3000 mile intervals . I believe you have a rebuilt engine but has it had lots of internal upgrades such as roller rockers etc ?
 

Mad4slalom

Well-known user
I personally have misgivings about using synthetic after all the research I did . That`s why I went with Valvoline VR1 . It has the right amount of ZDDP in it and is recommended for older design of engines ans is race proven provided you change at no more than 3000 mile intervals . I believe you have a rebuilt engine but has it had lots of internal upgrades such as roller rockers etc ?
Hi chuff, no , the previous owner was adamant that a top quality oil with 12/1400 ppm zinc was used as it has flat tappet camshaft. . He was using mobil one high mileage 5:/30. So will keep using a synthetic. Going to change my gearbox oil too as I dont know what is in there now, so dont want to top up with something that may not mix or be compatible. Am going with redline mt90 which is gl4 and developed for older boxes with yellow metal in the synchros. 👍
 

Chuffer

CCCUK Member
Hi Mad4 . If previous owner knew his stuff and cherished his car then I guess he should now . Mine is flat tappet with hydraulic lifters too but was recommended to use VR1 .Good luck with the gear box oil change . Having an auto that had a complete rebuild and torque converter flush out in late 2016 so should be ok for a while yet . 🙏
 

Mad4slalom

Well-known user
Hi Mad4 . If previous owner knew his stuff and cherished his car then I guess he should now . Mine is flat tappet with hydraulic lifters too but was recommended to use VR1 .Good luck with the gear box oil change . Having an auto that had a complete rebuild and torque converter flush out in late 2016 so should be ok for a while yet . 🙏
Its hard isnt it ? as its like information overload and you dont know which to go with. Once you have weighed things up and made a decision its done then , right or wrong. Feel happy now as i need to check my g box level as it weeps a bit so at least by changing , then i know whats in it 👍
 
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