Rubber fuel hose query.

antijam

antijam

CCCUK Member
Roscobbc said:
A couple of observations. A few years back (10/15 years of more) and before all this ethanol crap became legislated there was some 'pretty' looking stainless steel braided hosing on the market. I bought some (along with quite of few others who would experience later the same issues as I did).......it was poor quality far eastern manufactured garbage. No one though to check it out for SAE no's. It was sold at car shows etc. I used it for fuel feed from hard line at top of engine to the carb and to connect the two Holley floats. Roll-on a year or so and the rubber inner hose simply disintegrated, but being encased with the stainless braiding was invisible. Fortunately the smell and leak we quickly spotted - others were not so lucky.
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I had exactly the same experience with my Daimler Rosco. To 'bling up' the engine bay a little I too fitted some 'pretty' stainless steel braided hose without giving any thought to ethanol resistance.

P1280755.JPG

Surprisingly It started leaking within a few months, fortunately from the line connecting the two carbs as the fuel fell into the tappet cover between the heads. Had it leaked from the line from the fuel filter to the carb it would have landed directly on the exhaust manifold! :eek:
I did replace the lines with stainless braided hose again; this time with guaranteed ethanol resistance. So far no more leaks after 8 years.
It really doesn't take long for ethanol to destroy 'standard' fuel hose so if in doubt it's always a good idea to replace any old lines.
 
Roscobbc

Roscobbc

Moderator
Even my good old Briggs & Stratton powered rotary mower is surprisingly affected. 'Surprisingly' cos' it's only 10 years old or so but the use of ethanol content fuel causes the rubber primer button (which is full of fuel) to rot-out and become porous every 2 or 3 years. May be a B & S design (but along with any spare parts) made in a 3rd world country!
 
CaptainK

CaptainK

CCCUK Member
Mad4slalom said:
I get that fuel smell a bit after I put her away hot , I think its more evap than leak tho, i have had a more neat petrol smell if I completely brim the tank so I leave an inch at the top now, besides, it never stays full for long !!🫣🤣👍
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Yeah, mine is evap too I think. As I only use my Vette locally, I don't really leave that much fuel in it. Half a tank or so. Only time I brim it is when I'm going long distance, and that little extra gallon at the top will give me a precious one or two more miles :ROFLMAO:
 
Mad4slalom

Mad4slalom

Well-known user
Roscobbc said:
A couple of observations. A few years back (10/15 years of more) and before all this ethanol crap became legislated there was some 'pretty' looking stainless steel braided hosing on the market. I bought some (along with quite of few others who would experience later the same issues as I did).......it was poor quality far eastern manufactured garbage. No one though to check it out for SAE no's. It was sold at car shows etc. I used it for fuel feed from hard line at top of engine to the carb and to connect the two Holley floats. Roll-on a year or so and the rubber inner hose simply disintegrated, but being encased with the stainless braiding was invisible. Fortunately the smell and leak we quickly spotted - others were not so lucky.
On my C3 even though the fuel lines are metal at the fuel pump they may be hosing connecting metal pipe. Certainly at the rear of the car there is flexible hosing connectly the hard line to the fuel tank......and that one ethanol was in common use caused a leak on mine......again fortunately quickly smelt. spotted and identified.

And Mad - I was curious about the 'return' line - I know its to circulate fuel in the 'line' from front of car back to the tank and helps prevent percolation - on mine it connects to a three way metal canister fuel filter just in front of the passenger side cylinder head.
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I only felt mine , I can get underneath sometime and have a better look, 👍
 
teamzr1

teamzr1

Supporting vendor
People may not know or forgot but even in the late 1990s in the users vehicle manual would state :
noeth.jpg

Some states here in the USA would not even allow gas mixed with Ethanol in the summer as it caused the engines to
run too lean, causing damage and more carbon output due to summer heat causing AFR to be too lean so only allowed as a winter grade

Makers of motorcycles, lawnmowers, gas powered chain saws, etc informed their customers also no warranty due to Ethanol damage
so image older cars like the C3.

Due to Ethanol lobbies filling politicians pockets with money pushed laws to make Ethanol look great and even allowed gas station pumps
to remove Ethanol labels to hide from the buyers what they were pumping into older gas driven engines

For my 1999 C5 I spend more money since it was new with non ethanol gas.
 
Chuffer

Chuffer

CCCUK Member
I have owned my C3 for 8 years now and since the ethanol debacle raised it`s ugly head and the effects on classic cars I have used Lucas Safeguard Ethanol Conditioner on every tank full or partial top up . It`s a USA product and has good reviews . Only time will tell I guess but effects of ethanol are a worry since Esso stopped supplying ethanol free 98 RON in the UK .
 
antijam

antijam

CCCUK Member
I now dose my classics with STA-BIL fuel protection at each fill up......
protection.JPG

.....and dose them with STA-BIL Storage when laying them up for extended periods.
storage.JPG
These allegedly protect the fuel system from ethanol damage and prevent fuel degradation during prolonged storage. Whether this is achieving anything is hard to tell.:unsure: I guess you really only know that it isn't when you can attribute a failure to ethanol in the fuel.
 
Roscobbc

Roscobbc

Moderator
Logically running low ethanol content gas in a typical 'classic' like our C3's with early/mid 70's tech is only likely to create an issue once (on respective components). If erosion issues and subsequent replacement of carb gaskets, fuel pumps and/or diaphragms and rubber fuel lines are the end result of the E5 or whatever fuel........it's likely they would ultimately fail anyway at some point in the near future. At least if it happens and you replace the items with current spec' parts you are unlikely to have issues for a fair while. Preventative maintenance!
 
teamzr1

teamzr1

Supporting vendor
I think the whole issue about Ethanol is either ignored or not understood by people
Frankly, this crap came about as corn farms and others profiting making or selling this crap as those holding a political office grabbed
millions of bucks under the table and also pandered to people just for votes

There are a lot more issues to the engine other than the fuel lines or pump
Ethanol is great for cleaning if it is the crap in the tanks gas stations use to your own gas tanks
It loves sucking water up but worse as example :

Here is the fuel float in a C5 and newer Corvettes

The float has a small printed circuits card and the float arm end touches the pads on the card,
Each point of the pads is a different resistance value
That value is received by the controller and converted to amount of gas in the tank
Problem is the Ethanol eats the masking off the pads and traces so incorrect resistance occurs thus incorrect reading in fuel gauge

This has caused the car running out of gas as the gauge reporting that there was gas when really was not or
the controller seeing a false low gas level to put the engine into a limp mode and tripping a low gas level warning
Other times gas gauge may report 1/2 tank when tank really is about full
This happens at great times like 2 AM and not a gas station in many miles

Even a federal recall about this all GM did is make a software change in the PCM so if suspected low gas level the PCM forces the engine into a limp mode, and now you can cruise for many miles at 2 MPH and will not get out of limp mode until gas is added to the tanks

In the end, Ethanol instead has less fuel mileage than normal gas and smog levels really no better.

floatcard.jpgFloat.jpg
 
Roscobbc

Roscobbc

Moderator
I had heard some of the classic bikers talking about Aspen 4 stroke and 2 stroke petrols and wondered what it was all about.
It seems that it's an 'old school' petrol unadulterated with Ethanol and other chemicals that create issues in smaller petrol engines and doesn't go stale like modern fuels. But I don't think I'll be using it at a recommended price of £5.75 a litre and £24.50 for 5 litres (just over an Imperial Gallon) - Interestingly it is marketed by Anglo American Oil in the UK.
alton-gardencentre.co.uk

ASPEN 4 Four-Stroke Fuel (In Store Only) - Alton Garden Centre

ASPEN 4 is a superior alternative to regular unleaded petrol which is better for you, your machine, and the environment. Suitable for use in lawnmowers, tractors, cultivators, and other garden machines with 4-stroke engines.
alton-gardencentre.co.uk alton-gardencentre.co.uk
 
Mad4slalom

Mad4slalom

Well-known user
Roscobbc said:
I had heard some of the classic bikers talking about Aspen 4 stroke and 2 stroke petrols and wondered what it was all about.
It seems that it's an 'old school' petrol unadulterated with Ethanol and other chemicals that create issues in smaller petrol engines and doesn't go stale like modern fuels. But I don't think I'll be using it at a recommended price of £5.75 a litre and £24.50 for 5 litres (just over an Imperial Gallon) - Interestingly it is marketed by Anglo American Oil in the UK.
alton-gardencentre.co.uk

ASPEN 4 Four-Stroke Fuel (In Store Only) - Alton Garden Centre

ASPEN 4 is a superior alternative to regular unleaded petrol which is better for you, your machine, and the environment. Suitable for use in lawnmowers, tractors, cultivators, and other garden machines with 4-stroke engines.
alton-gardencentre.co.uk alton-gardencentre.co.uk
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This will be our downfall in the not too distant future , getting reasonable quality fuel or any fuel at all that is not priced as aspen four stroke. That is just selling original pre ethanol petrol at 4 times the price. I have always said that the government and green lobby will restrict fuel or price it out of reach. Very depressing, the future is bleak and getting bleaker with each new virtue signalling ed milliband change. 😤
 
Mad4slalom

Mad4slalom

Well-known user
Chuffer said:
I have owned my C3 for 8 years now and since the ethanol debacle raised it`s ugly head and the effects on classic cars I have used Lucas Safeguard Ethanol Conditioner on every tank full or partial top up . It`s a USA product and has good reviews . Only time will tell I guess but effects of ethanol are a worry since Esso stopped supplying ethanol free 98 RON in the UK .
Click to expand...
Local flying clubs and aerodromes sell ethanol free avgas but very expensive I believe 👍
 
G

Grahamred70

CCCUK Member
I currently have 2 Chevy's a 1970 C3 and a 1976 C10 truck. When I imported my Corvette several years ago and before the E fuel I replaced all the fuel hoses as I had no idea of their history, after all they could have been originals, I think at that time R6 was a good quality hose for fuel, from the fuel pump I connected PTFE lined stainless braided lines using the AN fittings previously mentioned from the steel line to the carb along with an inline cleanable filter, I think fire prevention is more important than originality having already experienced a car bursting into flames while I was driving!!
As my truck had lived in Nevada just about all the rubber had gone hard and useless so all hoses underneath were changed for R6 and again PTFE from pump to carb again with an in line filter, this setup is now about 4 years old but a change to R9 is on the todo list, I have the hose all ready.
As the Corvette doesn't go far these days I use E5 which is OK with the R6 hoses I believe.
Just what I've done, not saying you have to do the same but I wouldn't be using 12 year old fuel hoses under any circumstances, as said above I've already had a car self combust whilst driving it's not funny.

Graham
 
Mad4slalom

Mad4slalom

Well-known user
Grahamred70 said:
I currently have 2 Chevy's a 1970 C3 and a 1976 C10 truck. When I imported my Corvette several years ago and before the E fuel I replaced all the fuel hoses as I had no idea of their history, after all they could have been originals, I think at that time R6 was a good quality hose for fuel, from the fuel pump I connected PTFE lined stainless braided lines using the AN fittings previously mentioned from the steel line to the carb along with an inline cleanable filter, I think fire prevention is more important than originality having already experienced a car bursting into flames while I was driving!!
As my truck had lived in Nevada just about all the rubber had gone hard and useless so all hoses underneath were changed for R6 and again PTFE from pump to carb again with an in line filter, this setup is now about 4 years old but a change to R9 is on the todo list, I have the hose all ready.
As the Corvette doesn't go far these days I use E5 which is OK with the R6 hoses I believe.
Just what I've done, not saying you have to do the same but I wouldn't be using 12 year old fuel hoses under any circumstances, as said above I've already had a car self combust whilst driving it's not funny.

Graham
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Thanks graham , yes , I will be changing what rubber hoses I have got to R9. I have solid lines to the carb so not lots to change but prudent and for peace of mind 👍
 
Mad4slalom

Mad4slalom

Well-known user
Does anyone know what diameter hoses are on the vettes and a good supplier of e9 or the highest spec ethanol resistant hose. . ? TiA👍
 
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