Are we still convinced that electric vehicles are the best way forward?

Since Geely is China and bought Volvo earlier this year and crap China pulls, Trump is not their friend
Esp since it was found, China has taken control of the Panama Canal which USA built with many American lives
and now what the PC is charging our military and other ships to go through that canal very high costs

Once Trump yanks all the tax dollars been given to nameplates for EVs and people that buy those, I rather think
fewer nameplates would want to build EVs here

Maybe build them in the UK

The British government is giving carmakers eight weeks to submit views on the phaseout of new gasoline and diesel cars, as ministers consider easing sales quotas that electric vehicle manufacturers are struggling to hit.

The Department for Transport has committed to removing combustion engine cars from sale by 2030, but is now asking the industry whether its plan to meet that goal is viable. The consultation will ask whether “flexibilities” baked into the current system are working properly to support manufacturers.

The consultation comes amid fierce industry criticism of the government’s sales quotas for zero-emission vehicles introduced by Conservative former Prime Minister Rishi Sunak’s administration, which include fines for manufacturers that fall short. Labor Business and Trade Secretary Jonathan Reynolds said last month the quotas, which require 22% of new cars and 10% of new vans sold by each manufacturer this year to be zero-emission, are not working as planned.

Despite heavy discounting, manufacturers are struggling to meet the quotas electric vehicles accounted for 18.7% of the UK car market between January and November. According to the Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit think tank, the industry will meet the target this year only because the EV sales mandate takes into account credits earned from selling hybrid vehicles.

Vauxhall-owner Stellantis NV last month blamed EV rules for its plan to shut a van factory in Luton, putting around 1,100 jobs at risk, while Ford Motor Co. has also cut jobs in the UK due to EV sales failing to pick up as quickly as hoped.

Mike Hawes, chief executive of trade group the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, has previously criticized the government’s “build it, and they will come” approach to the EV transition. “The fact is, we are building them, but they aren’t coming in sufficient numbers to buy,” Hawes said last month.

The Department for Transport said the consultation will not back away from the 2030 target to stop selling gasoline and diesel cars, but will look at further support measures for the industry and also consider which hybrid cars can be sold alongside zero emission models between 2030 and 2035.

“Over the last few years, our automotive industry has been stifled by a lack of certainty and direction,” Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander said in a statement. “This government will change that.”

The consultation closes Feb. 18.

teamzr1 said:

Newly re-elected President Donald J. Trump announced today, killed off the federal mandate of EV

BTW, a plant in the USA that makes EV batteries caught fire a few days ago and still has been burning

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See this is where you lose all of your credibility. Moss Landing facility does not make EV batteries. Due to America being a bit hopeless making things.... except for Corvettes and weapons the plant was made to reduce the domestic power outages and power cuts by using solar power charging the batteries for home use.

I get it, you love your Murica. But that fire had hee haw to do with cars

Will be interesting to see how his pal Musk rolls with his cars being pumped
I take it Trump doesn't drive? His spacial awareness is poor, couldn't manage to kiss his wife....

If you like it or not, makers of Lithium batteries are also used in hybrids or EVs
and due to the fires due to EVs, even nameplates say not to park one in a garage and home and car insurance companies
do not want to insure because of fires being common

Does not change motive of my post that killing off federal EV mandate will have effects worldwide of mindset of nameplates
esp with GM dictating that a C9 Corvette being electric only

For those of us hardcore, Corvette as a Sports car welcomes this and preserves a choice that new Corvettes also still can be bought with ICE

President Donald Trump pledged in his inauguration speech to swiftly roll back what he has labeled the "electric vehicle mandate," or
federal regulations that would've required increasingly strict vehicle emissions standards over the coming years.

Trump claimed the executive order, signed Monday as part of a larger suite of actions around energy policy, would "save" the U.S. auto industry and its workers. And for consumers, he added, "you'll be able to buy the car of your choice."
Such a regulatory rollback could mean automakers place less of a focus on producing EVs going forward.

The EPA in March finalized a greenhouse-gas emissions tailpipe fleet standard for model years 2027 to 2032.

The agency projected by 2032 manufacturers may choose to produce all-electric vehicles for about 30% to 56% of their new light-duty vehicle sales along with a mix of other hybrid, plug-in hybrid and cleaner gas- and diesel-powered vehicles. The Biden had said the goal was to encourage Americans to buy EVs, and auto companies to start the shift away from gas-powered vehicles.

The company behind the United States Postal Service's all-electric "Duck" mail trucks said it is prepared to shift back to gas-powered vehicles.

According to Bloomberg, Oshkosh Corp. has confirmed that it will provide USPS with gas-powered trucks if the agency decides to cut back on orders of its electric vehicles under Donald Trump, who will take office on January 20.
The outlet reported that President-elect Trump has been a critic of the funding that Oshkosh Corp. has benefited from.

The company's chief executive officer, John Pfeifer, confirmed during an interview at CES in Las Vegas that the company is prepared to provide the agency with gas-powered vehicles.

“We’ll do what they want us to do, supplying either gas or electric,” Pfeifer said, according to the outlet. “A new Congress could come in and repeal, I guess, part of the IRA that hasn’t been spent.”

According to Bloomberg, the Inflation Reduction Act, which was signed by President Joe Biden in 2022, provided $3 billion for the U.S. Postal Service's ten-year transition to an electric fleet.
The agency said it plans to add more than 100,000 mail trucks through 2028

Interesting Barra the big boss of GM knowing Trump would do this sold GM stock for $85 million for her to bank a few months ago

teamzr1 said:

If you like it or not, makers of Lithium batteries are also used in hybrids or EVs
and due to the fires due to EVs, even nameplates say not to park one in a garage and home and car insurance companies
do not want to insure because of fires being common

Does not change motive of my post that killing off federal EV mandate will have effects worldwide of mindset of nameplates
esp with GM dictating that a C9 Corvette being electric only

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I don't know what a "nameplate" on this context is. I have one on my front door.

A normal car is 10 times more likely to have a fire event than an EV, thats a fact. For the record, EV's are not new. I drove my first in 1989.

There is all these myths about insurance, battery life, recycling etc. I've owned two over the last 7 years, Jaguar iPace, currently a Tesla (which i will be replacing soon, and not with a Tesla) both of which have been flawless.

Electricity is just another type of fuel.

I get it, it's not for you, but telling untruths about fires in California just makes you look foolish whatever your agenda is.

6 cylinder Corvettes existed 70 years ago. Look how they have evolved.

Young Bill said:

I don't know what a "nameplate" on this context is. I have one on my front door.

A normal car is 10 times more likely to have a fire event than an EV, thats a fact. For the record, EV's are not new. I drove my first in 1989.

There is all these myths about insurance, battery life, recycling etc. I've owned two over the last 7 years, Jaguar iPace, currently a Tesla (which i will be replacing soon, and not with a Tesla) both of which have been flawless.

Electricity is just another type of fuel.

I get it, it's not for you, but telling untruths about fires in California just makes you look foolish whatever your agenda is.

6 cylinder Corvettes existed 70 years ago. Look how they have evolved.

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Show me where I stated "fires in California" ?

Insurance companies have issues with EVs and fires when parked and off, not ICE
Nor are nameplates telling their ICE based vehicles not to park in a garage, but sure have for electric based

Untruth is those attaching others viewpoints as to ICE or a fricking battery, even hybrid
Fact is, customers buying the E-Ray are now pissed as the battery design is so bad that GM forced
design if weather is 40F degree ONLY ICE is functional as if electric only there is NO HVAC, including defrost
because the battery would not last 2 miles and HVAC than requires ICE to function

This is not about 70 years ago as it even had ICE and YES as owner of Corvettes as a sports car, I want to long distance haul ass and
not have added another 400–500 pounds added for battery systems
Corvettes history is about racing not waxing, car shows or driving in the slow lane to save fuel mileage, and we pay for that
with the high amount of taxes per gallon we pay at the pumps

Seems any tine a pro ICE Corvette owner has a viewpoint, the electric pro side makes it like we just beat up their mother
In the end, what the USA does as to electric will make nameplates in other countries think about their vehicles' makeup selling in the USA

Residents of a southeast Missouri town were forced to evacuate their homes when a fire erupted at a nearby battery recycler.
Madison County 911 posted on Facebook around 2 p.m. on behalf of the county sheriff’s office, telling residents north and west of Fredericktown to leave the area.
“If you can see or smell smoke in this area, you need to evacuate!” the post says.

In a separate post later in the afternoon, Madison County 911 and the Fredericktown Fire Department said only residents on Madison County Road 277 needed to evacuate
The county urged other residents to shelter in place. The post said the city of Fredericktown was not affected by the order.
“Close windows, doors and turn off window AC systems,” the post says. “Again, if you see smoke, stay indoors.”
Around 7:45 p.m., an emergency dispatcher told The Independent crews were still fighting the fire.

Critical Mineral Recovery, one of the world’s largest lithium-ion battery processing facilities, with a hole in its partially-collapsed roof. Smoke billowed from the charred building and a slight glow of remnant fire could be seen inside.

According to the company’s website, the plant processes electric vehicle and consumer-grade lithium-ion batteries and retrieves valuable metals and minerals, including copper, nickel, cobalt, lithium, manganese and aluminum. The recycled materials can be used to build new batteries.

The fire erupted in spite of what the company’s website calls “likely the most sophisticated automated and remote supervised and controlled fire suppression systems in the world.”
“The state-of-the-art fire prevention system is designed to detect fires before they start,” the company’s site says.
“The system covers all areas where battery materials are stored or processed. It is monitored remotely 24/7 employing high-intensity industrial forward-looking infrared…camera technology.”

-----------------------
Even GM

Following a fire that broke out yesterday evening at the GM Factory Zero plant in Michigan and caused a temporary halt in production there, assembly of EVs has resumed at the site this morning as investigations begin.

The blaze was extinguished later last night with no injuries to either GM employees or firefighters, The Detroit Free Press reports, and the factory’s first shift was able to start working today at their normal time of 6 o’clock in the morning.

The Detroit Fire Department responded to the fire with a three-alarm call that summoned 18 fire trucks and 60 firefighters to the plant late on Tuesday.
The report indicates the fire took place in and around a loading dock area and that lithium-ion Ultium battery units awaiting installation in EVs caught fire.

“Much” of the 4.5 million square foot facility was filled with dense, potentially toxic smoke, leading to a full evacuation of all workers. James Harris, the Detroit fire chief, remarked today that the Fire Department is “doing a thorough investigation,” adding that “with the size of the building, we want to make sure this investigation is solid, so we’re still investigating as we speak.”
He also noted lithium-ion batteries” were involved.

The Detroit Fire Department reported the incident as “an autonomous electric car fire” and a “battery” fire” releasing toxic smoke from incinerated EV batteries.

Hmm, untruths

You've too much time on your hands. EV is here to stay, suck it up.
US is decades behind on EV infrastructure, not enough chargers, too far apart.
Never had problems with EV insurance. Maybe just you guys in Murica... ?
Could Google how many ice cars have went on fire but cannae be arsed. BMW has issues at the moment with fuel pumps causing fires. Google that.

But hey, enjoy your night...

This discussion as to me is about Corvettes, a sports car and not some made in EU EV where they drive at 30 MPH on the freeway
Buy all the EVs you want there, but when it comes to the American Corvette, we have no intent to please Europe
with hundreds of pounds of batteries slowing us down as here go fast,
Real fast

My post was to inform others who did not want an all EV C9 Corvette, good news as of today !
ICE power or nothing !

As deadly blazes continue to rage this week in the Los Angeles area, officials are grappling with new hazards amid the rubble: damaged batteries, including those from electric vehicles

When Gov. Gavin Newsom, D-Calif., said earlier this week that debris removal crews are poised to move into devastated areas, his office noted in a statement that batteries “can pose distinct risks when exposed to high heat from fires.”
“While the state has extensive experience with clearing cars with (internal) combustion engines,
cleanup teams are still adapting to newer technologies like Tesla and other lithium-ion batteries,” the statement said.


As Hurricane Milton barreled toward Florida in September, officials there warned people to
move their EVs to higher ground because exposure to salt water from storm surge could lead to batteries short-circuiting and catching fire.


Following the Maui fires in 2023, federal hazardous material removal teams used new techniques to process lithium-ion batteries from electric and hybrid vehicles and power walls to reduce the risk of the damaged technology igniting and exploding.

What are the challenges?
If batteries are exposed to flames, they can become fire risks reigniting days, weeks or even months after the initial blaze.

Authorities advised people responding to the Palisades Fire to be mindful of them, identifying damaged or destroyed EV, residential and commercial lithium-ion battery packs as “hazardous structures” in a response plan for managing the fire earlier this week.

“Even after a fire has been extinguished, those batteries could be susceptible to reigniting,” said Eliza Hotchkiss, director of the Energy Security and Resilience Center at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory.
“That makes cleanup dangerous for the cleanup crews that are going in after a fire, so it’s really important that those are identified.”

When compromised, these batteries can short-circuit and heat up uncontrollably, releasing toxic and flammable gases that can catch fire. But the risk isn’t the same for all batteries, said Richard Birt, a retired firefighter and founder of Solar and Fire Education, which provides free training for firefighters.
Many modern home storage systems now use batteries that have a much lower risk of reigniting than those found in EVs, and don’t contain heavy metals, Birt said. A damaged residential battery could still hold a charge, he added.

Actively burning batteries can also produce toxic fumes. Additionally, EVs tend to burn longer than gas-powered cars, and these fires can be harder to put out because it’s difficult for water to reach the battery packs, Malmgren said.

The agency now deploys a specialized team into communities affected by fires to handle these batteries, Guria said. If there is a damaged battery, the team will remove it, taking precautions such as wrapping it in a thermal blanket and bringing it to another area where it is de-energized, a process that lowers its voltage.
While fire risk is the primary concern around damaged batteries, the technology could also contain heavy metals such as lithium, cobalt and nickel that could leach into the environment, Hotchkiss said.

Young Bill said:

I don't know what a "nameplate" on this context is. I have one on my front door.

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I believe it means "Car manufacturer".

There seems to be a lot of traction by the major car, and commercial vehicle, manufacturers as regards hydrogen power. Seems to eliminate much of the concerns regarding EV's. I also understand that that it is possible to convert conventional ICE's to run on hydrogen which seems eminently sensible rather than scrap perfectly good vehicles.

I recall when I last regularly commuted into London some fifteen years ago, before deciding to work elsewhere, there were buses running on hydrogen. Whether they were fuel cells or conversions I dont know but, one way or the other, its not particularly new technology. It will be interesting to see how this develops.

phild said:

There seems to be a lot of traction by the major car, and commercial vehicle, manufacturers as regards hydrogen power. Seems to eliminate much of the concerns regarding EV's. I also understand that that it is possible to convert conventional ICE's to run on hydrogen which seems eminently sensible rather than scrap perfectly good vehicles.

I recall when I last regularly commuted into London some fifteen years ago, before deciding to work elsewhere, there were buses running on hydrogen. Whether they were fuel cells or conversions I dont know but, one way or the other, its not particularly new technology. It will be interesting to see how this develops.

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I recall the hydrogen powered LT buses........in fact the 'filling' station and hydrogen storage facility was only a couple of miles from where I live down on the A127 adjacent to the BP garage and Palms Motel. Just the one filling station on a major trunk road that you'd see a small number of trial buses (5 no. route 7) return to every evening for 'filling-up' and return to central London the following morning. This was back in Livingstones day as I recall - and then only a trial. There was huge concern locally (believe or not) about a nucular explosion........and more realistically a major fire with all the hydrogen cylinder stored at the depot. Trial only lasted two or three years......and yes they were fuel cell vehicles. Roll forward 20 or so years and there are now currently a limited number of fuel call buses running in London. Interesting!
file:///C:/Users/ross_/Downloads/365-10-004-UK-Apr17-transport-for-london-hydrogen-bus-project.pdf

I've never heard of any concerns about a petrol filling station explosion. I've never heard of one either although that doesn't mean there have never been any. I do recall the spectacular one in the film Bullet.

phild said:

I've never heard of any concerns about a petrol filling station explosion. I've never heard of one either although that doesn't mean there have never been any. I do recall the spectacular one in the film Bullet.

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Strange world our automotive one. Petrol as we know itself is relatively harmless as a fire risk - its the vapour that is highly explosive. Diesel fuel is the hidden danger - although it doesn't have the same issues with vapor as petrol it seems almost impossible to extinquish if it runs on to even a non combustible surface (like carpeting, seating and trim) the numbers of HGV where the derv leaks on to other parts of the truck and load and seemingly unextinquishable.

Hydrogen really should be the way to go , but the R101 didn`t fair too well did it ???? But now Trump has pulled out of the Paris Agreement as he threatened and other major polluting countries like China and India don`t give a damn , this piffling country of ours is just pissing in the wind in its attempts to lead the way in reducing global warming !! I

Chuffer said:

Hydrogen really should be the way to go , but the R101 didn`t fair too well did it ???? But now Trump has pulled out of the Paris Agreement as he threatened and other major polluting countries like China and India don`t give a damn , this piffling country of ours is just pissing in the wind in its attempts to lead the way in reducing global warming !! I

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The effects of third world 'emerging economies', China, India, probably most of the Pacific basin churning out endless and ever increasing levels of airborne and other toxic waste with good old blighty and a fair bit of Europe is reminicent of living in your street, with your double/triple glazing, cavity and other insulation with your heat pump and solar panels with your hybrid or electric vehicle parked in the garage all minimising local pollution.........yet all your neighbours are running diesel 4X4's, with log burners backing-up their oil fired central heating which (along with the house lights) is running permanently during winter months.