Are we still convinced that electric vehicles are the best way forward?

Young Bill

CCCUK regional rep
Oh my, just came across this thread..... you old carbon burning fella's have no love for the EV eh. Some amount of mince on the thread with most of the stuff debunked at three years old. Here's my tuppence worth. The infrastructure is still fine. Petrol, diesel, lpg is also flammable and needs copious amounts of water (but mainly foam) to extinguish, can also reignite. And when there are power outage you need to remember that petrol pumps run on electricity too :)
 

Roscobbc

Moderator
Scenario for post 2035 (when manufacture of ICE powered cars becomes illegal in UK, Europe and other supposedly 'developed' countries)
1. Continued manufacture of ICE powered vehicles by 'renegade' non-compliant and third world countries with existing car plants 'feeding' continual demand for ICE powered vehicles.
2. Annual consumption of Petrol and Derv starts to reduce. Oil supplying countries, fuel refineries, distributors, wholesalers and retailers will be forced to increase wholesale and pump prices in order to cover for the reduced volumes of fuel sold at the pumps.
3. Year-on-year as conventional older ICE powered vehicles are forced to be scrapped (due to unavailabilty of parts and difficulties in continuing to meet emission standards) volumes of ICE fuel consumed will reduce in successive years further increasing costs at the pumps (for the reasons in 2. above).
4. Our own HMG will look to further increase fuel tax as nett tax and Vat revenues significantly reduce (due to the reasons in 1. and 2. above)
5. Synthetic fuels whilst having limited availabilty currently never actually materialise as cost effective alternatives to petrol and derv as HMG refuse to consider reduction of taxation levels (to make synthetic on par with conventional fossil fuels). Even further fuel increases due to ever increasing downturn in petrol and Derv usage as per 2. and 3. above)
6. Classic car ownership becomes an increasingly expensive 'luxury' due to costs of fuel but oddly a logical alternative (to those who will be able to afford to use them) to any remaining ICE powered cars manufactured between the 1980's and 2035. This will be due to unavailability of electronic componentry and non-servicability of suitable diagnostic equipment.
7. At various points during the decade following 2035 the UK's unmaintained road network will multiple suffer massive gridlock scenarios where thousands of stranded electric vehicles will be 'marooned' possibly for days at a time while waiting for recovery services.
 

Young Bill

CCCUK regional rep
Scenario for post 2035 (when manufacture of ICE powered cars becomes illegal in UK, Europe and other supposedly 'developed' countries)
1. Continued manufacture of ICE powered vehicles by 'renegade' non-compliant and third world countries with existing car plants 'feeding' continual demand for ICE powered vehicles.
2. Annual consumption of Petrol and Derv starts to reduce. Oil supplying countries, fuel refineries, distributors, wholesalers and retailers will be forced to increase wholesale and pump prices in order to cover for the reduced volumes of fuel sold at the pumps.
3. Year-on-year as conventional older ICE powered vehicles are forced to be scrapped (due to unavailabilty of parts and difficulties in continuing to meet emission standards) volumes of ICE fuel consumed will reduce in successive years further increasing costs at the pumps (for the reasons in 2. above).
4. Our own HMG will look to further increase fuel tax as nett tax and Vat revenues significantly reduce (due to the reasons in 1. and 2. above)
5. Synthetic fuels whilst having limited availabilty currently never actually materialise as cost effective alternatives to petrol and derv as HMG refuse to consider reduction of taxation levels (to make synthetic on par with conventional fossil fuels). Even further fuel increases due to ever increasing downturn in petrol and Derv usage as per 2. and 3. above)
6. Classic car ownership becomes an increasingly expensive 'luxury' due to costs of fuel but oddly a logical alternative (to those who will be able to afford to use them) to any remaining ICE powered cars manufactured between the 1980's and 2035. This will be due to unavailability of electronic componentry and non-servicability of suitable diagnostic equipment.
7. At various points during the decade following 2035 the UK's unmaintained road network will multiple suffer massive gridlock scenarios where thousands of stranded electric vehicles will be 'marooned' possibly for days at a time while waiting for recovery services.
Can you give me the lottery numbers as well? Asking for a friend that doesn't have a time machine like yourself.
 

CaptainK

CCCUK Member
Being a responsible parent, I'm trying to get my child, and my young nieces and nephews into electric cars. Sadly they all seem to just want to take advantage of the speed and power of the electric cars and just drive like maniacs. I wouldn't mind so much, but its always the parents that are having to move the sofa out of the way to retrieve the crashed cars.
 
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Chuffer

CCCUK Member
Being a responsible parent, I'm trying to get my child, and my young nieces and nephews into electric cars. Sadly they all seem to just want to take advantage of the speed and power of the electric cars and just drive like maniacs. I wouldn't mind so much, but its always the parents that are having to move the sofa out of the way to retrieve the crashed cars.
Get them friction drive cars like I had as a `nipper` then you will be totally eco friendly and no need to generate electricity ! :LOL:
 

teamzr1

Supporting vendor
Who would buy one of these knowing the costly batteries could be degraded ?

Hertz's stupid decision to buy 100,000 Teslas has backfired badly, but it does mean cheap EVs are up for grabs.

The car rental giant began to sell off its stock of Teslas a year ago due to a lack of demand from customers who prefer gas models.
Bosses also said they wanted to offload the cars due to very high repair costs.
With slow demand, Hertz is being forced to sell the electric vehicles at steep discounts.

In the past week, a Hertz customer shared a deal on a 2023 Tesla Model 3 for just $17,913, less than half its retail price of $38,990.
In January, the company said that the proceeds from the sales would go to funding more gas powered cars.

It is a departure from its previous target that 25 percent of its overall fleet would be electric by the end of 2024.
In 2022, it said it would buy up to 65,000 EVs over five years from Polestar. That was just months after it ordered 100,000 cars from Tesla.

The selling of the EV fleet aligns with a large trend in the US auto market, in which demand for electric cars have fallen greatly
 

Roscobbc

Moderator
Who would buy one of these knowing the costly batteries could be degraded ?

Hertz's stupid decision to buy 100,000 Teslas has backfired badly, but it does mean cheap EVs are up for grabs.

The car rental giant began to sell off its stock of Teslas a year ago due to a lack of demand from customers who prefer gas models.
Bosses also said they wanted to offload the cars due to very high repair costs.
With slow demand, Hertz is being forced to sell the electric vehicles at steep discounts.

In the past week, a Hertz customer shared a deal on a 2023 Tesla Model 3 for just $17,913, less than half its retail price of $38,990.
In January, the company said that the proceeds from the sales would go to funding more gas powered cars.

It is a departure from its previous target that 25 percent of its overall fleet would be electric by the end of 2024.
In 2022, it said it would buy up to 65,000 EVs over five years from Polestar. That was just months after it ordered 100,000 cars from Tesla.

The selling of the EV fleet aligns with a large trend in the US auto market, in which demand for electric cars have fallen greatly
Wonder what the Donald thinks about Geely/Volvo being 'bed-fellows' - are they actually manufacturing/assembling the the USA yet?
 

teamzr1

Supporting vendor
Since Geely is China and bought Volvo earlier this year and crap China pulls, Trump is not their friend
Esp since it was found, China has taken control of the Panama Canal which USA built with many American lives
and now what the PC is charging our military and other ships to go through that canal very high costs

Once Trump yanks all the tax dollars been given to nameplates for EVs and people that buy those, I rather think
fewer nameplates would want to build EVs here

Maybe build them in the UK :ROFLMAO:
 

teamzr1

Supporting vendor
The British government is giving carmakers eight weeks to submit views on the phaseout of new gasoline and diesel cars, as ministers consider easing sales quotas that electric vehicle manufacturers are struggling to hit.

The Department for Transport has committed to removing combustion engine cars from sale by 2030, but is now asking the industry whether its plan to meet that goal is viable. The consultation will ask whether “flexibilities” baked into the current system are working properly to support manufacturers.

The consultation comes amid fierce industry criticism of the government’s sales quotas for zero-emission vehicles introduced by Conservative former Prime Minister Rishi Sunak’s administration, which include fines for manufacturers that fall short. Labor Business and Trade Secretary Jonathan Reynolds said last month the quotas, which require 22% of new cars and 10% of new vans sold by each manufacturer this year to be zero-emission, are not working as planned.

Despite heavy discounting, manufacturers are struggling to meet the quotas electric vehicles accounted for 18.7% of the UK car market between January and November. According to the Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit think tank, the industry will meet the target this year only because the EV sales mandate takes into account credits earned from selling hybrid vehicles.

Vauxhall-owner Stellantis NV last month blamed EV rules for its plan to shut a van factory in Luton, putting around 1,100 jobs at risk, while Ford Motor Co. has also cut jobs in the UK due to EV sales failing to pick up as quickly as hoped.

Mike Hawes, chief executive of trade group the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, has previously criticized the government’s “build it, and they will come” approach to the EV transition. “The fact is, we are building them, but they aren’t coming in sufficient numbers to buy,” Hawes said last month.

The Department for Transport said the consultation will not back away from the 2030 target to stop selling gasoline and diesel cars, but will look at further support measures for the industry and also consider which hybrid cars can be sold alongside zero emission models between 2030 and 2035.

“Over the last few years, our automotive industry has been stifled by a lack of certainty and direction,” Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander said in a statement. “This government will change that.”

The consultation closes Feb. 18.
 

teamzr1

Supporting vendor
Newly re-elected President Donald J. Trump announced today, killed off the federal mandate of EV

BTW, a plant in the USA that makes EV batteries caught fire a few days ago and still has been burning
 

Young Bill

CCCUK regional rep
Newly re-elected President Donald J. Trump announced today, killed off the federal mandate of EV

BTW, a plant in the USA that makes EV batteries caught fire a few days ago and still has been burning
See this is where you lose all of your credibility. Moss Landing facility does not make EV batteries. Due to America being a bit hopeless making things.... except for Corvettes and weapons 😀 the plant was made to reduce the domestic power outages and power cuts by using solar power charging the batteries for home use.

I get it, you love your Murica. But that fire had hee haw to do with cars

Will be interesting to see how his pal Musk rolls with his cars being pumped 😉
I take it Trump doesn't drive? His spacial awareness is poor, couldn't manage to kiss his wife.... 😬🇺🇸🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
 

teamzr1

Supporting vendor
If you like it or not, makers of Lithium batteries are also used in hybrids or EVs
and due to the fires due to EVs, even nameplates say not to park one in a garage and home and car insurance companies
do not want to insure because of fires being common

Does not change motive of my post that killing off federal EV mandate will have effects worldwide of mindset of nameplates
esp with GM dictating that a C9 Corvette being electric only
 

teamzr1

Supporting vendor
For those of us hardcore, Corvette as a Sports car welcomes this and preserves a choice that new Corvettes also still can be bought with ICE

President Donald Trump pledged in his inauguration speech to swiftly roll back what he has labeled the "electric vehicle mandate," or
federal regulations that would've required increasingly strict vehicle emissions standards over the coming years.

Trump claimed the executive order, signed Monday as part of a larger suite of actions around energy policy, would "save" the U.S. auto industry and its workers. And for consumers, he added, "you'll be able to buy the car of your choice."
Such a regulatory rollback could mean automakers place less of a focus on producing EVs going forward.

The EPA in March finalized a greenhouse-gas emissions tailpipe fleet standard for model years 2027 to 2032.

The agency projected by 2032 manufacturers may choose to produce all-electric vehicles for about 30% to 56% of their new light-duty vehicle sales along with a mix of other hybrid, plug-in hybrid and cleaner gas- and diesel-powered vehicles. The Biden had said the goal was to encourage Americans to buy EVs, and auto companies to start the shift away from gas-powered vehicles.
 

teamzr1

Supporting vendor
The company behind the United States Postal Service's all-electric "Duck" mail trucks said it is prepared to shift back to gas-powered vehicles.

According to Bloomberg, Oshkosh Corp. has confirmed that it will provide USPS with gas-powered trucks if the agency decides to cut back on orders of its electric vehicles under Donald Trump, who will take office on January 20.
The outlet reported that President-elect Trump has been a critic of the funding that Oshkosh Corp. has benefited from.

The company's chief executive officer, John Pfeifer, confirmed during an interview at CES in Las Vegas that the company is prepared to provide the agency with gas-powered vehicles.

“We’ll do what they want us to do, supplying either gas or electric,” Pfeifer said, according to the outlet. “A new Congress could come in and repeal, I guess, part of the IRA that hasn’t been spent.”

According to Bloomberg, the Inflation Reduction Act, which was signed by President Joe Biden in 2022, provided $3 billion for the U.S. Postal Service's ten-year transition to an electric fleet.
The agency said it plans to add more than 100,000 mail trucks through 2028

Interesting Barra the big boss of GM knowing Trump would do this sold GM stock for $85 million for her to bank a few months ago
 

Young Bill

CCCUK regional rep
If you like it or not, makers of Lithium batteries are also used in hybrids or EVs
and due to the fires due to EVs, even nameplates say not to park one in a garage and home and car insurance companies
do not want to insure because of fires being common

Does not change motive of my post that killing off federal EV mandate will have effects worldwide of mindset of nameplates
esp with GM dictating that a C9 Corvette being electric only
I don't know what a "nameplate" on this context is. I have one on my front door.

A normal car is 10 times more likely to have a fire event than an EV, thats a fact. For the record, EV's are not new. I drove my first in 1989.

There is all these myths about insurance, battery life, recycling etc. I've owned two over the last 7 years, Jaguar iPace, currently a Tesla (which i will be replacing soon, and not with a Tesla) both of which have been flawless.

Electricity is just another type of fuel.

I get it, it's not for you, but telling untruths about fires in California just makes you look foolish whatever your agenda is.

6 cylinder Corvettes existed 70 years ago. Look how they have evolved.
 
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teamzr1

Supporting vendor
I don't know what a "nameplate" on this context is. I have one on my front door.

A normal car is 10 times more likely to have a fire event than an EV, thats a fact. For the record, EV's are not new. I drove my first in 1989.

There is all these myths about insurance, battery life, recycling etc. I've owned two over the last 7 years, Jaguar iPace, currently a Tesla (which i will be replacing soon, and not with a Tesla) both of which have been flawless.

Electricity is just another type of fuel.

I get it, it's not for you, but telling untruths about fires in California just makes you look foolish whatever your agenda is.

6 cylinder Corvettes existed 70 years ago. Look how they have evolved.

Show me where I stated "fires in California" ?

Insurance companies have issues with EVs and fires when parked and off, not ICE
Nor are nameplates telling their ICE based vehicles not to park in a garage, but sure have for electric based

Untruth is those attaching others viewpoints as to ICE or a fricking battery, even hybrid
Fact is, customers buying the E-Ray are now pissed as the battery design is so bad that GM forced
design if weather is 40F degree ONLY ICE is functional as if electric only there is NO HVAC, including defrost
because the battery would not last 2 miles and HVAC than requires ICE to function

This is not about 70 years ago as it even had ICE and YES as owner of Corvettes as a sports car, I want to long distance haul ass and
not have added another 400–500 pounds added for battery systems
Corvettes history is about racing not waxing, car shows or driving in the slow lane to save fuel mileage, and we pay for that
with the high amount of taxes per gallon we pay at the pumps

Seems any tine a pro ICE Corvette owner has a viewpoint, the electric pro side makes it like we just beat up their mother
In the end, what the USA does as to electric will make nameplates in other countries think about their vehicles' makeup selling in the USA
 

teamzr1

Supporting vendor
Residents of a southeast Missouri town were forced to evacuate their homes when a fire erupted at a nearby battery recycler.
Madison County 911 posted on Facebook around 2 p.m. on behalf of the county sheriff’s office, telling residents north and west of Fredericktown to leave the area.
“If you can see or smell smoke in this area, you need to evacuate!” the post says.

In a separate post later in the afternoon, Madison County 911 and the Fredericktown Fire Department said only residents on Madison County Road 277 needed to evacuate
The county urged other residents to shelter in place. The post said the city of Fredericktown was not affected by the order.
“Close windows, doors and turn off window AC systems,” the post says. “Again, if you see smoke, stay indoors.”
Around 7:45 p.m., an emergency dispatcher told The Independent crews were still fighting the fire.

Critical Mineral Recovery, one of the world’s largest lithium-ion battery processing facilities, with a hole in its partially-collapsed roof. Smoke billowed from the charred building and a slight glow of remnant fire could be seen inside.

According to the company’s website, the plant processes electric vehicle and consumer-grade lithium-ion batteries and retrieves valuable metals and minerals, including copper, nickel, cobalt, lithium, manganese and aluminum. The recycled materials can be used to build new batteries.

The fire erupted in spite of what the company’s website calls “likely the most sophisticated automated and remote supervised and controlled fire suppression systems in the world.”
“The state-of-the-art fire prevention system is designed to detect fires before they start,” the company’s site says.
“The system covers all areas where battery materials are stored or processed. It is monitored remotely 24/7 employing high-intensity industrial forward-looking infrared…camera technology.”

-----------------------
Even GM

Following a fire that broke out yesterday evening at the GM Factory Zero plant in Michigan and caused a temporary halt in production there, assembly of EVs has resumed at the site this morning as investigations begin.

The blaze was extinguished later last night with no injuries to either GM employees or firefighters, The Detroit Free Press reports, and the factory’s first shift was able to start working today at their normal time of 6 o’clock in the morning.

The Detroit Fire Department responded to the fire with a three-alarm call that summoned 18 fire trucks and 60 firefighters to the plant late on Tuesday.
The report indicates the fire took place in and around a loading dock area and that lithium-ion Ultium battery units awaiting installation in EVs caught fire.

“Much” of the 4.5 million square foot facility was filled with dense, potentially toxic smoke, leading to a full evacuation of all workers. James Harris, the Detroit fire chief, remarked today that the Fire Department is “doing a thorough investigation,” adding that “with the size of the building, we want to make sure this investigation is solid, so we’re still investigating as we speak.”
He also noted lithium-ion batteries” were involved.

The Detroit Fire Department reported the incident as “an autonomous electric car fire” and a “battery” fire” releasing toxic smoke from incinerated EV batteries.

Hmm, untruths :(
 
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