Are we still convinced that electric vehicles are the best way forward?

[teamzr1]

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. (AP) — Automaker Stellantis on Wednesday announced a recall of more than 32,000 of its hybrid Jeep Wrangler SUVs
because they pose a potential fire risk.

As part of what the company described as a routine review of customer information, Stellantis determined that 40 of the hybrid Wranglers had caught fire while they were turned off and parked.
18 of the vehicles were being charged when the fires started.
The company said it doesn’t believe anyone was hurt in the fires.
The recall covers 2021–2024 models of the Jeep Wrangler 4xe SUVs.
All other Wrangler models have been deemed safe by Stellantis, which maintains its U.S. headquarters in Auburn Hills, Michigan.
The SUVs affected by the recall can still be driven until they are fixed, but Stellantis is recommending they be parked away from buildings
and not be charged until they can be repaired.
The fixes involve either resetting or updating the software, or replacing the vehicle’s battery pack.
Stellantis plans to contact the owners of the SUVs that need to be fixed.

 

[teamzr1]

EV owners report far more problems with their cars and trucks than owners of gas-powered vehicles, according to a new survey.

Vehicles in the burgeoning electric vehicle segment, from model year 2021 through 2023, encountered 79 percent more problems than those with combustion engines, according to a Consumer Reports survey of more than 330,000 car owners.
The research said EV owners most frequently reported troubles with battery and charging systems, as well as flaws in body panels and the fit of interior parts.

Consumer Reports noted that reliability concerns will cause additional apprehension among prospective buyers, alongside concerns about higher costs, too few charging stations and long charging times.
The growth of EV sales has slowed sharply since last year, and concern has heightened that American consumers are simply not prepared to make the switch from gas-powered cars.

In June 2022, EV sales were growing about 90 percent year over year. But by June of this year, the 12-month growth rate had slowed to about 50 percent. Automakers have become increasingly fearful the pace will weaken further.

And this week, about 3,900 auto dealers signed a letter to Joey Biden asking him to rethink what they described as unrealistic fuel economy and emissions requirements.
'They are not selling nearly as fast as they are arriving at our dealerships, even with deep price cuts, manufacturer incentives and generous government incentives,' the letter said.

 

[Pinhead]

The additional faults over internal combustion is quite probably the tesla effect
While the main parts of the car are very well made and designed
Much of the less important things to the functionality of a car are just thrown together
The vast majority of tesla warranty issues tend to be creaks, rattles, incorrectly installed seals allowing water in to the cabin door handles etc
As well as many problems with software
Much of which is labeled as beta and there is no actual fix with software updates often breaking some things while fixing others

But the actual stranded at the roadside type of faliure is very very small
This is not really an ev issue as such more just a tesla issue and In North America they sell just about as many evs as the rest of the manufacturers put together

And even with all their faults I think they make a great daily
Having had a model S for 5 years and added 100k Miles to it its had one break down that renered it inoperative
A broken can wire to the rear motor
Similar failures often happen with internal combustion but would usually result in a limp mode situation
Other than that it's cost very very little to own and run aside from depreciation
I have fitted a load of front suspension parts to get rid of a knock its still on factory brakes at 120k and 3rd set of tyres
Electric costing on average 1.5p a Mile

It's off in January and a new model 3 facelift will replace it as a company car
Then hopefully the release of capital from my car will allow me to get a C7 that I have been hankering after

 

[Roscobbc]

The additional faults over internal combustion is quite probably the tesla effect
While the main parts of the car are very well made and designed
Much of the less important things to the functionality of a car are just thrown together
The vast majority of tesla warranty issues tend to be creaks, rattles, incorrectly installed seals allowing water in to the cabin door handles etc
As well as many problems with software
Much of which is labeled as beta and there is no actual fix with software updates often breaking some things while fixing others

But the actual stranded at the roadside type of faliure is very very small
This is not really an ev issue as such more just a tesla issue and In North America they sell just about as many evs as the rest of the manufacturers put together

And even with all their faults I think they make a great daily
Having had a model S for 5 years and added 100k Miles to it its had one break down that renered it inoperative
A broken can wire to the rear motor
Similar failures often happen with internal combustion but would usually result in a limp mode situation
Other than that it's cost very very little to own and run aside from depreciation
I have fitted a load of front suspension parts to get rid of a knock its still on factory brakes at 120k and 3rd set of tyres
Electric costing on average 1.5p a Mile

It's off in January and a new model 3 facelift will replace it as a company car
Then hopefully the release of capital from my car will allow me to get a C7 that I have been hankering after

But are your running costs based on use in UK - and based on use of 'home' charging (and what ever KW charger you have installed) - 'free' Model S charging at Superchargers - or a charging mix?

 

[Pinhead]

But are your running costs based on use in UK - and based on use of 'home' charging (and what ever KW charger you have installed) - 'free' Model S charging at Superchargers - or a charging mix?

Yes uk based costs
Mainly charging at home
Initially I had a home tarrif of 13.3p/kwh peak 5p/kwh off peak the way that my contracts renewed I missed the worst of the energy crisis but once I did hit that about 18 months ago peak went up to 39p and off peak 10p luckily this only lasted about 6 months and the rate came down again 30p peak and 7.5p off peak
As I could see the energy crisis coming I fitted solar and home battery system mainly to stave off peak rate use this has kept my monthly bills right down now paying less than I was before the price went up with a 12 months average bill for a 3 bed semi and a tesla doing 20k miles about £60 a month and a credit building up on my account as I am still paying the same DD
The car has a lifetime usage of 3 miles/kwh it uses more in winter and less in summer
I have free supercharging but don't use it that much maybe 15% of all charging
The average cost over 5 years will be about 6pkwh for home charging but working it our exactly will be hard work and I cannot be bothered
As for car maintenance its needed very little
I do most things myself
Annually I strip down the brakes and clean them out as lack of use due to regen can have them seize up
Front suspension rebuild this summer due to annoying rattle it still passed the mot but the quite ride of an ev means rattles are even more noticeable and annoying
1 break down broken can wire
Wheel refurb due to kerb rash and corrosion
12v battery went swapped over before a break down thanks to warning on yhe dash
I also had it down to cleevley EV for a service a couple of years ago they inspect all the HV stuff and check for integrity
This was £120
Had a coolant leak while still in warranty quickly sorted and had a loan car while it was done
The mcu was subject to a recall and done foc Inc loan car
I paid for an upgrade to allow the use of CCS chargers as this is the new standard and my car was a tesla propitary system before standards were set out
That's about it
The biggest cost has been depreciation by far I paid £43k for the car and I expect to acheave about £17k when I sell it

 

[Roscobbc]

I'm retired now and the mileage I used do gradually got lower each year (as my customer base mainly concentrated London useage and more use of tube/rail travel) and eventually ended-up at a lowly 18-20K miles pa (from a 35K and a peak further back some time previously of 45K miles pa). Vehicles was always company supplied and 3/4 year full service contract hire.
I did have the option of sourcing my own vehicle but with comparitively low mileage the figures didn't work out. Had I have been 'covering' a larger UK area and doing far higher mileage for me a Model S would have worked out quite well over a 3/4 year period and the high purchase cost would have been comfortably amortised by use of 'free'. Living 10 minutes off the Eastern side of the M25 and the fact that I'd be travelling past South Mimms Services and its supercharger stations and their 'free' Model S charging would jave been a bonus and quite possibly have sufficed generally. It seems that Volvo are the only major car manufacturer to have grasped the current reluctance of many car owners to 'invest' in an electric vehicle with their new XC30 suv range (starting at £33K)

 

[Pinhead]

It was a massive leap of faith just over 5 years ago these things were rare especially outside London where people bought them to save the congestion charge
But I am glad I did if I hadn't jumped then and learnt for myself how good the cars are I probably wouldn't want to now with all the mainly false negativity towards them
I still don't think they work for everyone and there are many challenges to overcome
People that live in flats and streets of terraced houses with no off street parking being some of the hardest cases to work out
Waking up every morning with a full tank is a true joy and although charging on a long trip takes a little more time than internal combustion would with careful planning timing the stops to coincide with a meal break for example can keep the disruption right down
The car that it replaced was an old astra diesel it said it did 55mpg but it lied it only actually acheaved mid 40s the annual spend on fuel was £3500 add the additional servicing cost and higher road tax and overall cost of ownership is very similar
And I would much rather drive a tesla than a rattly old diesel
Now if we had had a car of similar size and performance as the model S the sums would significantly move in favour of the S
If you don't above average Miles then I can see the sums not working as well and I have a freelander2 for knocking about locally and towing the caravan as my wife takes the tesla most days doing more miles than me for work for which she gets 50p a Mile 45p tax free and 5p that is taxed this is what it looked like when i picked it up

 

[Nassau65]

Looks very smart. Was hoping Tesla would have produced the S in an estate version by now so I could get one. A couple of friends have run them for 4/5 years and love them

 

[Roscobbc]

Used prices of Tesla S have always seemed to remain very strong - and seemingly irrespective of mileage and age. For me even the electric (now discontined) equivalent to my VW Up! petrol runaround (with its typical 5K pa mileage) just wouldn't make economic sense unfortunately

 

[teamzr1]

Not sure what
"But I am glad I did if I hadn't jumped then and learnt for myself how good the cars are I probably wouldn't want to now with all the mainly false negativity towards them"
Means

But as example City of New York here in the USA replaced most of their vehicles from gas to electric, taxpayer money by Billions were given to them to buy these electrics and was found out last year that they have hidden hundreds of these electrics in an out of way field where they let the weeds just grow high, so the public would not catch on

When caught, their excuse was they cannot repair them as the costs of replacement of batteries and labor was more than the vehicles were worth and demanded the feds via everyone in the USA's federal tax dollars give them billions of dollars to repair them

The game here is the feds conned people into buying electric by giving them $7,500 per electric, which again comes from the taxpayers
But when the total costs came in and when it hits those buyers the repair costs, they dump these electrics

For those that drive only a few miles, electric may be fine
But try as I used to do often drive from the West Coast VIA I-80 highway for 2,500 miles plus in 2 days and lucky if a gas station every 300 plus miles and worse is at night when some of those gas stations are closed.
Most of all the states west/east is farm or ranches, few gas stations, no easy places to even find charge stations



Try that with electric and how many hours parked getting charged up

So maybe works better where travel is short,
but not here in the USA where I know people that have to drive 400 miles round trip just to go by food and that is pulling a trailer
to haul all, they bought in once a month shopping

Where I live is a rental complex of over 400 living units,
the owner has installed zero charging stations and since people rent they have no OK by owner to install their own chargers or even the
A/C power breaker panels being able to handle another 50 plus AMPS draw

Best is they design nuke powered engines, I would be for that

 

[teamzr1]

Electric vehicle owners are facing repair bills that are thousands of dollars higher than those for ICE vehicles.
A lack of specially-trained mechanics, extra safety measures for potentially explosive batteries and a greater need for replacement parts are to blame.

Repairing an EV after a crash cost $6,587 on average last year, 56 percent higher than the $4,215 for all vehicles, according to research from auto data company CCC Intelligent Solutions.
Electric cars are promoted as needing less maintenance than their gas-powered counterparts, with tasks such as regular oil changes no longer necessary.

But when it comes to collision repair, they need more work than regular vehicles, according to CCC Intelligent Solutions.

The report found that last year, on average, an electric car repair required roughly double the replacement parts compared to a standard gas car.

'People are used to hearing that EVs have fewer parts than a combustion vehicle, but that is not the case in collision repair,' Marc Fredman, chief strategy officer at CCC Intelligent Solutions, told The Wall Street Journal.
The way that many EV parts are welded in the vehicles, he said, means the components cannot be repaired and have to be replaced instead.

Cars containing lithium-ion batteries also need special storage as they can be a fire risk when damaged, which adds both time and cost to the repair process, Scott Benavidez, chairman of the trade group Automotive Service Association, told the outlet.

Repairs costs are also higher since the bodies of EVs also tend to be made from more expensive aluminum rather than steel.
There are also a limited number of repair shops that are able to take on this work, meaning they are able to charge a premium for services.

The CCC Intelligent Solutions report noted, however, that EVs are, on average, more than four years newer than the average vehicle.
They also tend to cost over $30,000 more - which also pushes up repair costs.

It found the need for specialist care also means customers face longer wait times for repairs.

According to the report, it takes 25 percent longer to get an EV into a body shop compared to a gas car. And once mechanics start working, it typically takes 57 days to fix, compared to 45 days for non-EVs.

There are signs that costs could come down as more independent shops become trained in EV repairs and carmakers build up a supply of spare parts.

But, in the meantime, higher repair costs are also driving up insurance premiums for EV owners.

Brent Shreve and his wife Molly told DailyMail.com earlier this year how the insurance on their Tesla Model Y was double that of the cover on their Volkswagen Atlas.

Insurer State Farm quoted the couple - who are in their mid 30s - $78 for the gas car and $140 for the electric vehicle - despite the models being almost-identical in size and costing virtually the same amount.

It comes after a separate survey found EV owners report far more problems with their cars and trucks than owners of gas-powered vehicles.

A Consumer Reports survey of more than 330,000 car owners found electric cars encountered 79 percent more problems than those with combustion engines.

The research said EV owners most frequently reported troubles with battery and charging systems, as well as flaws in body panels and the fit of interior parts.

The report noted, however, that EV manufacturers are still learning how to construct new types of vehicles, and some problems would be teething issues which would be ironed out over time.

 

[Pinhead]

Electric vehicle owners are facing repair bills that are thousands of dollars higher than those for ICE vehicles.
A lack of specially-trained mechanics, extra safety measures for potentially explosive batteries and a greater need for replacement parts are to blame.

Repairing an EV after a crash cost $6,587 on average last year, 56 percent higher than the $4,215 for all vehicles, according to research from auto data company CCC Intelligent Solutions.
Electric cars are promoted as needing less maintenance than their gas-powered counterparts, with tasks such as regular oil changes no longer necessary.

But when it comes to collision repair, they need more work than regular vehicles, according to CCC Intelligent Solutions.

The report found that last year, on average, an electric car repair required roughly double the replacement parts compared to a standard gas car.

'People are used to hearing that EVs have fewer parts than a combustion vehicle, but that is not the case in collision repair,' Marc Fredman, chief strategy officer at CCC Intelligent Solutions, told The Wall Street Journal.
The way that many EV parts are welded in the vehicles, he said, means the components cannot be repaired and have to be replaced instead.

Cars containing lithium-ion batteries also need special storage as they can be a fire risk when damaged, which adds both time and cost to the repair process, Scott Benavidez, chairman of the trade group Automotive Service Association, told the outlet.

Repairs costs are also higher since the bodies of EVs also tend to be made from more expensive aluminum rather than steel.
There are also a limited number of repair shops that are able to take on this work, meaning they are able to charge a premium for services.

The CCC Intelligent Solutions report noted, however, that EVs are, on average, more than four years newer than the average vehicle.
They also tend to cost over $30,000 more - which also pushes up repair costs.

It found the need for specialist care also means customers face longer wait times for repairs.

According to the report, it takes 25 percent longer to get an EV into a body shop compared to a gas car. And once mechanics start working, it typically takes 57 days to fix, compared to 45 days for non-EVs.

There are signs that costs could come down as more independent shops become trained in EV repairs and carmakers build up a supply of spare parts.

But, in the meantime, higher repair costs are also driving up insurance premiums for EV owners.

Brent Shreve and his wife Molly told DailyMail.com earlier this year how the insurance on their Tesla Model Y was double that of the cover on their Volkswagen Atlas.

Insurer State Farm quoted the couple - who are in their mid 30s - $78 for the gas car and $140 for the electric vehicle - despite the models being almost-identical in size and costing virtually the same amount.

It comes after a separate survey found EV owners report far more problems with their cars and trucks than owners of gas-powered vehicles.

A Consumer Reports survey of more than 330,000 car owners found electric cars encountered 79 percent more problems than those with combustion engines.

The research said EV owners most frequently reported troubles with battery and charging systems, as well as flaws in body panels and the fit of interior parts.

The report noted, however, that EV manufacturers are still learning how to construct new types of vehicles, and some problems would be teething issues which would be ironed out over time.

Some of this is correct
On average the repair costs from collision are higher this is definitely true the costs have gone crazy to repair most modern cars unfortunately and the fact that EV,s are all relatively new will not help
Yes some extra training is needed To deal with damaged HV systems but generally if the accident was bad enough to structurally damage the pack a heavily protected part the car will be written off

The research said EV owners most frequently reported troubles with battery and charging systems, as well as flaws in body panels and the fit of interior parts.

So this is as I said before not really major issues fit and finish and I think this mainly comes from spending so much on a car you expect better
Charging issues
These usually fall in to 2 categories
Faulty public chargers are incredibly common
And then nearly every new owner that joins the tesla group with a new car asks why they only get 250 Mile's and not the advertised 320 or whatever
And the reason is the dash shows a realistic figure but the government test cycle is pretty unachievable but must be used for official information and advertising a lot like hiw most ICE cars do not acheave the official MPG
I very rarely see posts about my car won't charge they do pop up now and then but that side just seems to work

 

[teamzr1]

Another reason Americans feel this whole electric crap is a path to crooks, con artists & scams

In 2021, the Democrat-controlled Congress gave Joe Biden $7.5 billion to install electric vehicle chargers all over the country,
but two years later, not one charger has been installed, and the money is nowhere in sight

According to a 2021 analysis from the New York Times,
$1.2 trillion of the ‘Infrastructure’ bill would be spent over 8 years and $550 billion will go to roads, bridges, rail lines, electric vehicles, water systems and other programs.
Biden promised to use billions of dollars to build hundreds of thousands of EV chargers, however not one charger has been installed as his Regime works to ban gas-powered vehicles.
Congress at the urging of the Biden administration agreed in 2021 to spend $7.5 billion to build tens of thousands of electric vehicle chargers across the country, aiming to appease anxious drivers while tackling climate change.

States and the charger industry blame the delays mostly on the labyrinth of new contracting and performance requirements they have to navigate to receive federal funds.
While federal officials have authorized more than $2 billion of the funds to be sent to states,
fewer than half of states have even started to take bids from contractors to build the chargers, let alone begin construction.

Getting chargers up and running across the country is essential to reaching President Joe Biden’s goal of having half the vehicles sold in the United States be electric by the end of the decade, a key cog of his climate agenda.
Americans consistently say the lack of charging infrastructure is one of the top reasons they won’t buy an electric car.

Electric vehicle charging stations are scarce.
The infrastructure doesn’t exist, but Joe Biden and the Democrats are going forward with a gas vehicle ban.
Things are so bad that Biden’s own Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm had trouble charging her electric vehicle during a 4-day electric vehicle road trip over the summer.

Energy Department staffers pulled over to charge their fleet when they realized there weren’t enough available fast-charging plugs to juice up their vehicles. One of the four chargers was broken, and the other plugs were in use.

An Energy Department staffer was so desperate to reserve one of the fast-charging plugs for Granholm’s approaching EV that he boxed in a poor family with a baby in the car on a sweltering hot day with his gas-powered vehicle.
The family was so angry that they called the police on Granholm’s staffer.

What happened to the $7.5 billion set aside for EV chargers?

 

[teamzr1]

Cost of Replacing EV Batteries

The cost of replacing an electric car battery varies depending on the make and model of the EV. Here are some examples of the cost of replacing different EV batteries:

• Tesla Model S: A new battery for the Tesla Model S costs around $15,000 to $20,000.
• Nissan Leaf: Replacing the battery of the Nissan Leaf costs between $5,500 and $8,500, depending on whether you want a new or a refurbished battery.
• Chevy Bolt: The cost of replacing the battery of a Chevy Bolt ranges from $9,000 to $11,000.

BMW i3: A new battery for BMW i3 costs around $16,000.

Electric vehicle owners are limited in where they can get batteries, with most being forced to go through the manufacturer.
Used EV batteries are hard to come by, and they usually come secondhand from a wrecked EV. (Third-party manufacturing doesn’t really exist at the time of publishing.)

US Federal law requires manufacturers to warranty EV and hybrid batteries for at least eight years or 100,000 miles

The price of electric vehicles is still the biggest hurdle to most consumers considering a switch from gas-powered cars, and they might not even be factoring in some of the hidden costs associated with them.

A man in Scotland was recently shocked by a £17,374 ($21,000) bill to fix his Tesla after rain damaged the battery.

"I thought we would get a bill for £500 or £1,000," Johnny Bacigalupo told Edinburgh Live. "When they said over 17 grand, it's absolutely obscene. My heart missed a beat, honestly."

While government tax credits can help with the initial vehicle purchase, EVs are still more expensive than gas cars, mainly because it costs a lot to make them. While there have been price cuts, automakers ramped up production, causing the demand and prices for parts to skyrocket, especially batteries.
The cost of the parts leads to issues that could make the cars much more expensive than the sales tag in the long run.

EV batteries are costly to repair and replace

Recurrent, a firm that studies battery health, surveyed 15,000 EV drivers in March and found that 3.5% needed battery replacements, which range between $5,000 and $20,000.
The cars surveyed go back to 2011, but a vast majority were six years old or younger.

However, in some cases, it can cost even more.
Last year, a Tesla owner in Canada shared on TikTok that the company told him that a replacement battery would cost $26,000 when it died.

The batteries are easy to damage, difficult to repair, or even assess.
Tesla's Model Y battery has "zero repairability" after a collision, according to auto expert Sandy Munro.
Replacing a battery is so costly, that it can often be more than the car is worth, forcing insurance companies to write them off.

Insurance is more expensive for EVs
Easy write-offs from insurance companies lead to higher premiums.
According to Bankrate, the average cost to insure a Tesla ranges from $2,503 annually to $4,066, depending on the model. Meanwhile, the US average for all cars is about $2,148.

Those premiums are driven by higher repair costs. While EVs need to be fixed less often than gas cars, those repairs are more expensive.
According to Mitchell, a collision repair software company, the average repair cost for a non-Tesla EV is $269 higher than the average for all vehicles. For Teslas, each repair is $1,347 more than average.
There is also specialized labor required.
"Those parts can be pricey," according to insurance provider Progressive. "If the battery pack is damaged, certain safety protocols are often necessary, adding more to the repair bill. Plus, there aren't as many shops with technicians trained to fix electric vehicles versus traditional vehicles."

Charging may require more than just a plug

Electricity prices can fluctuate greatly by state and time of year, but there are other less obvious costs associated with charging EVs.
According to a study from Anderson Economic Group, if other factors are considered, such as installing a charger and EV registration fees, most cars cost more to charge than to fuel with gas.

Most EV owners charge their cars at home, and most vehicles come with a charger that can plug into a standard 110-volt home outlet. However, a long charge with this type of outlet may not be enough for some journeys: One driver of a Ford Mustang Mach-E told Insider they only got about 36 miles of range from an overnight charge.

To up the charging capacity, an owner needs access to a 240-volt outlet for a Level 2 charger, or can install one at home. They can purchase a Level 2 charger for between $200 to $1,000, depending on the features included. The installation adds about $1,000 to the total, according to Edmunds.
"If you don't have a Level 2, it's almost impossible," Bloomberg automotive analyst Kevin Tynan, who researches EVs, told Insider when asked about getting sufficient charge into an EV.
And if you do have a Level 2 charger at home, you might have to declare it on your home insurance policy, which could increase that premium.

Other factors to consider

Another issue with EV batteries is that nobody knows their lifespan. If people interested in used EVs are worried about replacing an expensive battery, the resale value will take a big hit.

Lifespan is also a factor with tires. Because the batteries on EVs are so heavy, the cars are heavier than comparable gas vehicles.
As a result, the cars require more expensive tires and those tires have to be replaced sooner than traditional car tires.
There are also indirect costs, such as time.
There is a good chance an owner will be forced to go to a dealer for repairs due to the complexity. This has led to long wait times, a lack of competitive pricing, and poor replacement parts inventory.

The cost differences between EVs and other cars will improve. The sticker prices will continue to come down, and smaller EVs are expected to have the same initial cost as their gas equivalents by 2025.

In the meantime, many EV owners are switching back to gas-powered cars.

According to a University of California-Davis study of 4,167 people, about 30% of EV owners purchased a gas car the next time, with most citing charging headaches. Of those who switched, 70% did not have a Level 2 charger at home.

 

[Vetteheadracer]

My opinion is electric cars are not the planet saviours they are being sold as. As soon as they reach a critical mass governments will come after them for the same levels of tax that they apply to petrol / diesel cars. I am sure that if you live in a city or do few miles per trip then they are definitely a good idea. If like me you need to shift a cubic metre of wood about 6 times a year plus transport lots of stuff backwards and forwards over 400 miles on about a two dozen days a year then an electric car is definitely not for me.
I am fine with people buying and using them What I am absolutely against is someone (aka Government) telling me I can't drive my petrol pickup truck where and when I want to, or indeed my Corvette.
Hydrogen cars or indeed petrol developed from sustainable resources are probably a much more environmentally friendly option. The FIA WEC already uses completely bio developed petrol for all of the race cars that race in the 7 rounds around the world.

 

[Roscobbc]

quote
A man in Scotland was recently shocked by a £17,374 ($21,000) bill to fix his Tesla after rain damaged the battery.
"I thought we would get a bill for £500 or £1,000," Johnny Bacigalupo told Edinburgh Live. "When they said over 17 grand, it's absolutely obscene. My heart missed a beat, honestly."

Has anyone noticed only a few years how, when manufacturers first began marketing 'full' electric vehicles (rather than hybrids) typical charging costs were always readily and glibly quoted as was the fact that all emissions/pollutants were at the generating source (although less revealing about it coming from fossil fueled generating stations, backed-up by the UK ever dwindling Nuclear stations, wind turbine power only when we have some wind and of course the 'inported' power from France and of cause at the manufacturing and mining sources)
That information all seem to have gone now and replaced with the 'soft' zero emission vehicle 'sell'. With last years dramatic rise for consumer, domestic (and commercial) energy costs the implications of 'cheap' electric charging vs petrol/derv has swung considerably out of favour for electric vehicles.
If one accepts the useful working life of a car has gone from perhaps a maximum of 8/10 years 20/30 years ago to currently at least 15 to 20 years it will be interesting in just a few years to see what happens out in the marketplace when perfectly servicable cars will be suffering from significantly depleted range as the batteries reach the end of thier useful lives and the vehicles made worthless due to the high cost of replacement batteries.
The current all common spectre of 'tea leaves' nicking high end Range Rovers and other high-end cars either for shipping to Eastern European and African markets or stripping for valuable parts will surely be replaced by the same people stealing lower mileage electric vehicles to order for their batteries.

 

[teamzr1]

Gee,
If I had one of those, what the hell would I do with the countless tools I have going back 55 years ;-(
Sounds like they want all of us to be waxers !

 

[teamzr1]

Electric cars from Tesla, Ford, Nissan and Volkswagen could cost an extra $7,500 from January as tax credits are removed.
Officials want US automakers to source batteries from companies based in America, or those with which it has a free trade deal.

This means any that contain materials from China -the leader in EV battery production - will no longer be eligible for the $7,500 credit from January 1, according to new guidelines from the Internal Revenue Service (IRS).
The tax credit is a key element of the Biden Administration's Inflation Reduction Act - BS green legislation designed to accelerate the shift to electric cars.

Given EVs are pricier than gas models, the incentive is a key driver for many swapping to an electric car.
Ford sent out a notice to dealers that the Ford Mustang Mach-E, one of the most popular electric cars in the US, was 'unlikely' to qualify for the tax credit from January 1, according to Cars Direct.

Tesla also warned customers that certain versions of the Model 3 would only be eligible for half of the $7,500 subsidy next year.
Under the current rules, ten models - including plug-in hybrid cars - are eligible for the full sum of money, while a further seven entitle buyers to $3,750.

According to the company's website, the Model 3 Rear-Wheel Drive and the Model 3 Long Range will see their credits halved next year. And according to reports, the Nissan Leaf and Volkswagen ID.4 could also be impacted.
The changes could prove problematic for carmakers and shoppers, as some drivers have been waiting until next year to buy an EV following the announcement earlier this year of a simpler claiming process for tax credits.

In October, the IRS announced that motorists would be able to take the tax credit off the sticker price of a new car, rather than having to wait to claim the subsidy in their tax return.
In the latest announcement, the IRS, the Treasury and the Department of Energy stated that EVs with battery materials sourced from 'foreign entities of concern' would be ineligible for the credit.

This refers to companies based in China, Russia, North Korea or Iran, or firms with at least 25 percent voting interest, board membership or ownership by a government of one of those countries.
These new regulations could reshape automakers' supply chains, and General Motors and Hyundai have announced plans to build EV plants in the US.

 

[teamzr1]

Ford is halving production of its fully electric F-150 Lightning pickup truck due to falling demand for EVs.

The company's Michigan plant will produce 1,600 a week, half its 3,200 capacity from January.
The price of the truck was cut by around $10,000 in the summer and can now be bought for between around $50,000 and just under $100,000.
The decision to limit production, leaked in a memo to dealers, comes despite Ford claiming the Lightning is selling faster than ever before.

CEO Jim Farley said earlier this month that in November the company sold 4,393, a record for a single month.
That is also more than it sold in the entire third quarter, according to company filings.

Ford has sold only 20,365 Lightnings for all of 2023, but that is still up from 13,258 in 2022.

Based on 1,600 units a week, analysis shows the company will still be producing around 6,950 trucks a month, well above even its current record-breaking sales.
Ford may be taking into account the widely held theory about electric vehicle sales that they will dip once the few people that want them have bought them.

The automaker's memo to dealers indicated the updated target was spurred by 'changing market demand'.
'There are early adopters, and the early adopters have adopted,' Joe McCabe, president and CEO of automotive consultancy AutoForecast Solutions.
Various automakers have announced in the second half of the year that they are looking to reduce spending on EV projects.

Thanks in part to billions in taxpayer subsidies enacted by Ahole Biden, automakers launched ambitious projects to capture the market. Recently, poor EV sales despite those subsidies have forced carmakers to reconsider.

Ford is not the only automaker to be experiencing issues with meeting electric vehicle sales targets.
It was reported earlier this week that Tesla is slashing the price of some of its best-selling vehicles in a last-minute push to boost sales before the end of the year.

 

[teamzr1]

Almost half of Buick dealers across the United States have opted to take buyouts from General Motors (GM) to avoid having to sell Electric Vehicles (EVs) at a time when consumer reports show Americans are increasingly turned off by the cars.

According to GM, almost 1,000 of its nearly 2,000 Buick dealerships across the U.S. chose to take buyouts from the parent company rather than investing potentially millions into retooling and prepping dealers to service and sell EVs.

The buyouts mean that GM will now have just about 1,000 Buick dealerships across the nation as the automaker moves forward with adhering to President Joe Biden’s green energy agenda.

The Wall Street Journal reports:

Dealers who are taking the buyout would give up the Buick franchise and no longer sell the brand, he said.
The dealer can continue to sell other GM models, such as Chevrolet or GMC, that often account for a higher percentage of sales. [Emphasis added]

The Journal reported in late 2022 that the automaker planned to offer buyouts to its U.S. Buick dealer network. The move came after the Detroit automaker gave them a choice: Invest at least $300,000 to sell and service EVs, or exit the Buick franchise. The investments would cover electric-vehicle chargers and worker training, among other initiatives. [Emphasis added]

The move comes as U.S. car dealers are so concerned with EV sales that they are urging Biden to abandon his EV mandates and carbon emission regulations that would effectively force all-electric cars on consumers.

“The reality, however, is that electric vehicle demand today is not keeping up with the large influx of [EVs] arriving at our dealerships prompted by the current regulations. [EVs] are stacking up on our lots,” the car dealers write:

With each passing day, it becomes more apparent that this attempted electric vehicle mandate is unrealistic based on current and forecasted customer demand. Already, electric vehicles are stacking up on our lots, which is our best indicator of customer demand in the marketplace. [Emphasis added]

At the same time, a bombshell Consumer Reports survey recently revealed that EVs spur nearly 80 percent more problems for car owners than gas-powered cars using traditional combustion engines.