Are we still convinced that electric vehicles are the best way forward?

[teamzr1]

Electric vehicles have caught on fire in Florida after becoming waterlogged during Hurricane Ian, giving firefighters “a new challenge” they “haven’t faced before,” according to one Florida official.

“There’s a ton of EVs disabled from Ian. As those batteries corrode very quickly, fires start.
That’s a new challenge that our firefighters haven’t faced before.
At least on this kind of scale,” Jimmy Patronis, Florida’s chief financial officer and state fire marshal, tweeted this week.

In his tweet, Patronis included a video of firefighters putting out a fire involving a Tesla. Meanwhile, someone can be heard saying that they had already used “1,500 gallons of water on this, and it’s still going.”

“Oh, and this will burn for days,” another individual can be heard saying in the video, before the first individual explains that the firefighters “have a good water supply,” and “they’re just going to do what they can to drown this vehicle.”

In a follow-up tweet, Patronis explained, “It takes special training and understanding of EVs [electric vehicles] to ensure these fires are put out quickly and safely.”
“Right now, they’re going to try to get in there and cool it down as best they can,” a woman can be heard explaining in the third video.
“Electric vehicles will continue to burn in the water.”

North Collier Fire Rescue District in Naples, Florida, posted additional footage to Facebook, showing firefighters drenching the Tesla’s top and underbelly with water to eliminate sparks.
“This is an issue many fire departments across [southwest] Florida are experiencing right now,” North Collier Fire Rescue District said in the Facebook post. “These vehicles have been submerged in salt water; they have extensive damage and can potentially be serious fire hazards.”

Having an electric vehicle during hurricane season in Florida is not the only potential disaster EV owners face.

This week, a man who bought a brand new $115,000 Hummer electric truck showcased how he was left stranded in the middle of the road and the vehicle had less than 250 miles on it.
Similarly, a YouTuber recently demonstrated that buyers of GMC’s new electric Hummer better clear their calendars if the truck is running low on battery charge. The video he produced demonstrated that when the $80,000+ electric vehicle (EV) is plugged in to a regular house outlet, it will take over four days to fully charge.
A special 240-volt charger still takes a full day to charge the vehicle.

A third, similar situation regarding EVs, involved another YouTuber with 1.4 million followers conducting an experiment with his brand new 2023 Ford F-150 Lightning electric pickup.
The man tried to tow a 1930 Ford Model A truck with the electric vehicle, but it ended in “a complete and total disaster.”

 

[Chuffer]

Best thing to do with EV`s and Hybrids that are so pug ugly is set fire to them . Just look at this VW XL1 that was at the Bicester Scramble yesterday , with the doors open it looks like a failed attempt at Origami and when closed it looks like an upturned bidet .

 

[teamzr1]

An electric vehicle (EV) owner who takes road trips between Cheyenne and Casper in Wyoming has revealed that his first trip of 178 miles took a staggering 15 hours to complete in his electric Nissan Leaf.

“It was very difficult. For example, [it took] 15 hours to get from Cheyenne to Casper,” Alan O’Hashi told Cowboy State Daily, adding that this particular trip wasn’t taken in the beginning of the EV era. It was in May 2022.

One month later, O’Hashi was able to complete the road trip in about 11 hours, he said. To put it into perspective, the trip of 178 miles should take less than two and a half hours traveling the speed limit in a gasoline-powered vehicle.

O’Hashi’s experience driving across Wyoming has been such an adventure that the EV owner even wrote a book about the subject, titled, On The Trail: Electric Vehicle Advice and Anxiety.

Charging an EV involves three different levels of chargers that power up different types of EVs at different rates, Cowboy State Daily noted. But none of these charging levels are as fast as filling up a gas-powered car at the pump.

O’Hashi said that on his first trip to Cody, Wyoming, from Colorado in his Nissan Leaf, he used a Level 3 charger at a public charging station in Wellington, Colorado, which can take his small vehicle between 10 and 30 minutes to charge.

But the charge wasn’t enough to get him to Casper, Wyoming. So he had to drive 30 miles to Cheyenne, where he could use a Level 2 charger at a Nissan dealership. At that level, O’Hashi would get roughly 10 miles worth of power for every hour he was hooked up.

Moreover, O’Hashi had to charge for three hours in order to get his battery back to where it was when he left Wellington.
“What I’ve learned from driving this thing is patience,” O’Hashi said.

Another problem with EVs in a place like Wyoming is that the hilly terrain and winds need to be factored in, as it can degrade an EV’s range by up to half, the report added.
Additionally, an EV owner cannot just call AAA to bring them more electricity. An electric vehicle that has run out of power needs to be towed to a charging station.

O’Hashi also told the outlet that he tries to stop at old motels, where he can stay on the first floor and run an extension cord out a window, while he’s on one of his road trips in his EV.

In some cases, the motels have plug-ins for block heaters, he added. Those reportedly charge a vehicle about 5 miles of range per hour.
So O’Hashi is able to get enough charge for another 40 miles as long as he stays at the motel overnight.

Unfortunately, those extra 40 miles O’Hashi obtained by charging overnight were only enough to get him to Riverton, he said. So from there, he drove his EV to a Nissan dealership to charge for a few more hours, just to make sure he wouldn’t get stranded.

After that, O’Hashi was able to make it to Riverton, where he pulled off into a Hampton Inn that offers EV charging.
A few hours after charging there, he headed up into the Wind River Canyon.

“So I barely made it to Cody,” O’Hashi said.

 

[CaptainK]

Well, that chap's first fail was not charging up at home before he left. If he regularly has to do this trip in an EV, he'd get an at home faster charger for overnight charging as well. The article doesn't state whether its an older Nissan Leaf first gen which does genuinely bugger all miles, or the latest model which still does bugger all miles, but a bit more than the first gen. If it was the first gen model, then yeah, he'd have to recharge at least twice to get to his destination. Newest gen, then recharge once to get there. (All assuming they actually engaged brain and charged the thing up overnight before they left home).

But the question is, if they are regularly driving long distance journeys, why did they buy a Nissan Leaf? The stats all say they don't have good range at all. If they really wanted an EV they should have thought about it and got an EV with a better range.

Disclaimer: I'm not "for" or "against" EVs. They have their place, like all vehicles, and again like all vehicles they are not suitable to all vehicle roles - e.g. you wouldn't use a tractor for a dash across Europe to the Riviera, and likewise you wouldn't use a Rolls Royce for ploughing the fields.

 

[Chuffer]

It will be interesting to see if EV sales drop off a cliff now that the `Comedy of Errors` that is poses as th UK`s Government has realised that it`s misguided and spurious claims that EV`s will save the planet is less imortant than tax revenue . Finally EV owners will have to pay to drive on our roads like the rest of us . The governent dangled the carrot of zero road tax to coax Joe Public into ditching their ICE vehicles in favour of EV just to boost the governments alledged `green ` credentials on the world stage , but as always the case money talks eventually !!

 

[Roscobbc]

Totally agree with Chuffers comment re. `Comedy of Errors` that poses as the UK`s Government' - 'thing is' that the same 'moniker' can be applied to every single goverment that has ever been appointed this century - why?. It's the ridiculous scenario of any government coming in to power (following a general election) and being able to reverse/ignore/cancel any worthwhile policies the previous government implemented. Proportional representation is perhaps the logical answer, although we would run the risk of having an Italianate political system and a new government ever other week!.........mind you the 'performances' we have seen over the couple years with our traditional system make things virtually 'Italinate' anyway.
Would Starmers mob make a difference?........seriously doubt it.........tbh I think all the political parties are 100% useless.......the individual party members who become ministers are all totally inexperienced and almost to a person unfit for governmental duties........what has happened to all the Tory, Labour, Liberal and SDP 'heavyweights' whose words and actions meant something?............they are all hiding away I guess uhappy at the thought of putting their respective names to lame governments.

 

[antijam]

We're currently experiencing the disadvantages of democracy with few of the advantages. Politicians of necessity have a short term view, their prime effort while in power is not to solve long term problems but to ensure they stay in power at the next election. For a longer term view on solving world problems - global warming for example - perhaps it's time for a dictatorship?

 

[Roscobbc]

We're currently experiencing the disadvantages of democracy with few of the advantages. Politicians of necessity have a short term view, their prime effort while in power is not to solve long term problems but to ensure they stay in power at the next election. For a longer term view on solving world problems - global warming for example - perhaps it's time for a dictatorship?

Exactly..........we wouldn't have the situation where virtually nothing in the UK is actually owned by UK based or owned individuals........finacial, energy and utilities suppliers are mainly owned by overseas companies........some (like France and Spain who themselves are only a step away from insolvency.........and kept going perhaps illegally by being 'propped-up' by thier own governments). We wouldn't have an energy crisis if successive previous governments hadn't continually deliberated on building new nuclear power stations..........and all this cobblers last week to the effect "65% of our electric power this week came from wind power" - great, commendable etc ....... how many weeks when we had 'still' weather was the output effectively zero? - and who owns and profits from the wind farm?.....UK companies and individuals?......I think not!

 

[James Vette]

I'm so paranoid in car parks that an electric car is gonna ram me! Silent killer!

 

[Chuffer]

Exactly..........we wouldn't have the situation where virtually nothing in the UK is actually owned by UK based or owned individuals........finacial, energy and utilities suppliers are mainly owned by overseas companies........some (like France and Spain who themselves are only a step away from insolvency.........and kept going perhaps illegally by being 'propped-up' by thier own governments). We wouldn't have an energy crisis if successive previous governments hadn't continually deliberated on building new nuclear power stations..........and all this cobblers last week to the effect "65% of our electric power this week came from wind power" - great, commendable etc ....... how many weeks when we had 'still' weather was the output effectively zero? - and who owns and profits from the wind farm?.....UK companies and individuals?......I think not!

Totally agree with you Roscobbc and Antijam , there is a lot to be said for dictatorships . Amongst the many failings of politicians is not learing from history and just thrive on their own egos and agendas .

 

[Chuffer]

I'm so paranoid in car parks that an electric car is gonna ram me! Silent killer!

At your youthful age I think you have far more things to worry about in the future of this world than being hit my an EV .

 

[Roscobbc]

Totally agree with you Roscobbc and Antijam , there is a lot to be said for dictatorships . Amongst the many failings of politicians is not learing from history and just thrive on their own egos and agendas .

Chuffers comment........"there is a lot to be said for dictatorships"........
The two quasi-dictatorships that come to mind recently are Boris and Trump........both indiviuals did some good in their 'reign'............but, equally both also cocked-up big time and alienated many people...........

 

[Chuffer]

Chuffers comment........"there is a lot to be said for dictatorships"........
The two quasi-dictatorships that come to mind recently are Boris and Trump........both indiviuals did some good in their 'reign'............but, equally both also cocked-up big time and alienated many people...........

Just like dear old Ollie Cromwell , he had the right ideas to start with but then became as un popular as Charles 1st . and had to be got rid of . What goes around comes around and there is nothing new under the sun .

 

[antijam]

The obvious downside of even 'benevolent' dictatorships lies in the quote by the historian Lord Acton - "Power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely".
This is demonstrably true of almost all dictators in history - including Boris Johnson and Donald Trump. Sometimes you have to live with the 'bad' to get the 'good'.

 

[Chuffer]

The obvious downside of even 'benevolent' dictatorships lies in the quote by the historian Lord Acton - "Power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely".
This is demonstrably true of almost all dictators in history - including Boris Johnson and Donald Trump. Sometimes you have to live with the 'bad' to get the 'good'.

Come the Revolution everything will change .

 

[teamzr1]

1,500 of US workers are expected to be laid off when automaker Stellantis closes an assembly plant in northern Illinois early next year,
citing the challenge of HIGH rising costs of electric vehicle production.

The company, which employs about 1,450 workers at the plant in Belvidere, Illinois, said the action will result in indefinite layoffs, and it may not resume operations as it considers other options.

Stellantis said the industry 'has been adversely affected by a multitude of factors like the ongoing pandemic and the global microchip shortage, but the most impactful challenge is the increasing cost related to the electrification of the automotive market.'

The Belvidere plant, produces the Jeep Cherokee SUV, will be idle starting on February 28, 2023, Stellantis said.
The plant in Toluca, Mexico will now produce the vehicles.

 

[Roscobbc]

1,500 of US workers are expected to be laid off when automaker Stellantis closes an assembly plant in northern Illinois early next year,
citing the challenge of HIGH rising costs of electric vehicle production.

The company, which employs about 1,450 workers at the plant in Belvidere, Illinois, said the action will result in indefinite layoffs, and it may not resume operations as it considers other options.

Stellantis said the industry 'has been adversely affected by a multitude of factors like the ongoing pandemic and the global microchip shortage, but the most impactful challenge is the increasing cost related to the electrification of the automotive market.'

The Belvidere plant, produces the Jeep Cherokee SUV, will be idle starting on February 28, 2023, Stellantis said.
The plant in Toluca, Mexico will now produce the vehicles.

Presumably far cheaper wage costs and overheads in Mexico...............?

 

[teamzr1]

It is now more than twice as expensive to charge an electric vehicle in Norway’s capital, Oslo, than to fill up a gas-powered vehicle.

It was reported in the local newspaper Avisa Oslo that the price of Oslo’s municipal electric car chargers rose dramatically after the city’s budget was approved last week.

As of 2019, the local government began charging citizens for charging their electric vehicles.
The prices ranged from 5 to 15 kroner per hour ($2) based on the charger’s output in kilowatts and the time of day, according to The Local.

The charges for the normal late-night and overnight charging have increased by seven times in less than four years.

Now, the Oslo government increased the charging of electric vehicles from NOK 28 to NOK 49 (USD 2.80-4.90) an hour for “normal” recharging during the day and NOK 13 to NOK 39 (USD 1.31-3.94) at night.

As a result of the price increase, Norsk elbilforening, the Norwegian Electric Vehicle Association, stated that it could no longer support the purchase of an electric vehicle, according to News in English.

“In some cases, it can be twice as expensive to charge an electric car as to fill up with polluting (fossil) fuel,” Christina Bu, secretary general of the el-car organization, told newspaper Finansavisen.
She went on to call the rate hike that was imposed literally overnight by the Oslo city government (ironically led by the Greens and Labour parties) as “idiotic.”
Due to public outcry and massive pressure from the Electric Vehicle Association and local EV owners, the Oslo city council has voted to revise the cost of charging on municipal street charging.

“We have communicated how many members who depend on street charging have contacted member services in the Electric Vehicle Association and expressed despair at the price shock,” said Christina Bu.
“The city council acknowledged last week’s charging problem. They stood up for their own climate goals and met the electric drivers,” he continued.

The new prices still involve an increase from the original price, but the price increase is therefore markedly lower than what the city council decided on 7 December.
These are the prices that come into force over the New Year (the examples are for rate zone 3052 or 3054):

At charging stations where it now costs NOK 35 ($3.54) an hour at night, after the New Year it will cost NOK 19 ($1.92) per hour.
The old rate was NOK 13 ($1.31).

At charging stations where it now costs NOK 49 ($4.95) per hour during the day, after the New Year it will cost NOK 27 ($2.73) per hour.
The old rate was NOK 18 ($1.82).

The price shall enter into force “as soon as possible”. Aftenposten reports that it will be in the New Year.
The Electric Vehicle Association has requested that the prices take effect before Christmas.

 

[CaptainK]

Talking of electric vehicles, I randomly found this thread where people are discussing converting their C3s to electric. One of them did it 10 odd years ago with lead acid batteries.

Electric C3

How shocked (pun intended) are you now at the thought of electric C3s?

 

[teamzr1]

Firefighters used 6,000 gallons of water to extinguish a Tesla Model S that spontaneously burst into flames on a busy highway outside of Sacramento, Ca on Saturday.

The driver, who was not injured, was on Highway 50 in Rancho Cordova at around 3pm when smoke started to come out from the front of the car.
Photos of the luxury car showed the vehicle completely totaled, with the front end of completely burnt.

Officials responded to the scene with two fire engines and a water tender.
The Metro Fire of Sacramento crew said that nothing was previously wrong with the car.