Engine issues - advice needed

CaptainK

CCCUK Member
Wowzers, that is bad news. Sorry to hear that. But on the plus side it does mean you have a good excuse to do some upgrades on your engine. Stroker setup and new heads etc like Ross says sounds like a plan. May as well as its all apart anyway.

(Says he with no money to do any of that if his engine grenaded)
 

Chuffer

CCCUK Member
So, I have got the engine report back from Dan at Stubbs Racing Engines......

He got the big block fully stripped down and reported it's not good news, however this is some positive !

The engine is on a standard bore size (this is extremely rare for these engines now) so this is good news and the engine looks like it has never been apart before so this is good. It even has the original General Motors bearings and Pistons etc, it's all original ! Also the engine is a 4 bolt main block so it is one of the strongest Big Block Chevy's GM ever produced. This casting number is typically high in nickel content which makes them strong !

He has rebuilt countless Big Block Chevrolet engines and only ever come across one other that was totally standard with a standard bore size.

Cylinder number 6 has a spun connecting rod bearing. This would be the bottom end noise. Unfortunately it has damaged the crankshaft beyond repair and the crank will need to be replaced along with all Connecting rods as the rotating assembly has been subject to extreme heat. He also found 4 broken piston rings. The bores are worn and the block will need a Re-bore and hone along with larger pistons and rings. Also recommend skimming the deck surface of the block and the cylinder heads to ensure a good head gasket seal. It will need new main bearings, con rod bearings, cam bearings. To add insult to injury, running the engine for only a few minutes a, few times, rather than going through the cam break in process of running it fast and hot has damaged the new cam and lifters.

So to recap the engine does need a full rebuild. In actual fact to say its never been rebuilt/opened up since it was originally built it hasn't done bad was the verdict.

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I am shocked by how much metal there is in the oil pan. I checked the oil that came out of the car and whilst here were a few traces of metal glistening in the oil it was in keeping with what might be expected from the cam and lifters that had worn. The oil pan was spotless when it went back on the car after the cam was installed and the car ran for no more than 10 minutes in he garage.

I do wonder if the bottom end has been failing for some time and got to a critical point of heat build up on the M1.

The car is going to be off the road for a month or two longer while this is sorted.
Ouch ! That is one serious BIG bill job and those bearings look well chewed up ! Sorry to hear you `in deep` with your car now but at least you will have a totally well sorted engine at the end of the day and know all its history .
 

Forrest Gump

CCCUK regional rep
Bear in mind it’s a slippery slope when you start along the engine ”performance upgrade” route though. For a start the clutch will need to be upgraded, then you’ll want headers and bigger exhaust, then an aluminium radiator……it goes on and on!
 

MilkyNoSugar

CCCUK Member
I am keeping things relatively standard and going for a full rebuild . I think the only moving bits that are being kept is the timing gears and chain, rockers, push rods and valve springs. It should be a great engine and will be a 460 not a 454, but trying to stay clear of loads of performance upgrades.
 

Roscobbc

Moderator
John Lee......you are continually ignoring requests to remove the Cialis advertising from your posts. Unless you 'respond' as previously requested you will face exclusion from these pages.
 

Chuffer

CCCUK Member
John Lee......you are continually ignoring requests to remove the Cialis advertising from your posts. Unless you 'respond' as previously requested you will face exclusion from these pages.
By gad Sir ! The bounder should be `blacked balled` from the club Sir for conduct not befitting a gentleman ! Just won`t do , won`t do at all . Damned near choked on my Brandy don`t you know ! 😡
 

MilkyNoSugar

CCCUK Member
Time for an update on the engine rebuild.

From the previous posts you can see that almost everything that moves in the engine was a write off, including the new cam that had a failed lobe on it as it did not get properly heat cycled and run in due to the other issues with the engine. It looks like the engine was probably already knacked when I got the car and the con rod bearings were probably already breaking down. It is a testament to the original build and strength of components used that it kept running as long as it did.

Based on recommendations and following conversations with Dan, I handed my engine over to Dan Stubbs at Stubbs Racing Engines in Derby for the rebuild.


The original block was rebored, and skimmed. Keeping to a sensible build for standard road use we agreed to use a standard GM crank and that was balanced and polished, and fitted with a new set of pistons and con rods taking it to 460 cubic inches. We stuck with the same cam as previously recommended by comp cams and got a new cam and followers to go with the previous and new rods, arms and timing gear for reference it is the Comp Cams K11-236-4 with RPM1411-6 rockers and push rods. The plan was to use a new air gap intake manifold and use the existing Holley carb that was fitted just before the engine let go.


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Steady progress was made and everything was going to plan. The bottom end was all built, everything painted and looked good.

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This is where we hit the first major unexpected issue. The original cast iron heads had looked ok, had been pressure tested and skimmed ready to use. However as they were being decoked and valves were being fitted and lapped in the heads were found to be slightly less than perfect and faults in the casting appeared.WhatsApp Image 2025-04-26 at 12.33.51 (1).jpeg

The search for some new heads began, and a set of original cast heads was found, collected, but turned out to be no better than the originals on inspection. So the contingency fund was opened up and a new set of Edelbrock Performer RPM High-Compression Cylinder Heads, oval port (100cc Chamber, 295cc Intake) were ordered from the USA. We kept things relatively standard to allow for the original exhaust manifolds to be used. Unfortunately this slowed progress for a few weeks until the heads arrived. The new heads would take to compression up from 8.5:1 to 9.44:1
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MilkyNoSugar

CCCUK Member
The rebuild continued....

With the unexpected delay waiting for the heads, time was spent painting everything that could be painted.
The new heads were checked and fitted with considerable attention to detail, checking seat pressures, push rod length and valve to piston clearance checked. Although it would ultimately take longer, the inner valve springs were removed to break in the cam.

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With the heads and intake manifold on, oil flow and pressure tested and all good running at 40 psi on the bench. Starting to look almost ready to go back in to the car....

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Attention turned to repairing the cast exhaust manifolds to remove a broken stud and repair a broken bolt hole.
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The big day arrived and the engine was going back in, albeit with a much smaller toy engine hoist than I used to remove the engine at the farm....

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What should have been a very good news day turned out to be another problem. The bonnet would not close without catching the air filter and carb. This was quite annoying as that concern was raised really early on before the air gap intake was purchased and we had reassurance from the supplier it would fit a standard 454 bonnet.

Loads of options were considered including trying to source a larger original L88 style bonnet but they are either very expensive new or extremely rare 2nd hand, as well as getting an aftermarket scoop/bulge and remodelling the bonnet to an L88 style. We also, rather drastically, considered cutting a hole in the bonnet. In the end we opted to use a original GM LS6 aluminium intake to keep the overall stack height down and retain the standard bonnet profile - this is something I already had available as it was fitted last year to replace the cast intake when the Holley 750 carb was fitted, just before the engine went bang.

Intake swapped over and carb refitted, the bonnet closed and things were looking very good.

On investigation before the engine was fired up to run everything in it appeared the carb was not opening up to full throttle due to some limiting factors. First of all the accelerator cable clamp was too close to the lever and required an adapter bracket to be made up. More importantly and less obvious was that the movement of the secondaries vacuum controlled arm was restricted by the spacer plate fitted by the previous garage that worked on the car. The carb was removed, plate modified and refitted and all appeared ok, with full throttle working as expected.
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The engine fired up first time, and the cam break in began. All looking great so far.

Yet another good news bad news day though. A vacuum leak was traced back to a crack in the carb base which appears to have been caused by a slightly warped base plate. The repeated fitting and removal over probably added to this fault, but the end result is a carb that needs to be replaced. Contingency fund raided again and a new Holley 4150 Double Pumper 650 CFM 4-Barrel Carburetor 0-4777S and new Holley Phenolic spacer was ordered from the USA resulting in another delay.

With the cam break in complete the double valve springs were fitted.
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New carb fitted, bonnet closure checked and the tuning work done.
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After almost a year off the road, she is done and ready to drive. Most of the delays arose early on before the car even got to Stubbs for the rebuild as I tried a top end rebuild first, hoping that it was not as major as it turned out to be.

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The first drive home was simply incredible, despite needing to be gentle for the next few hundred miles. I have already done 150 miles over the first weekend home, and the engine feels so much better than it ever did. There is plenty of power when needed, even without stressing it too much yet and it's very pleasurable to drive on country lanes, motorways and in traffic holding good oil pressure and steady temperature even with the high ambient temperature over the weekend.

Dan at Stubbs Racing Engines in Derby has done a fantastic job on the rebuild and kept me fully informed all the way through the project sharing good and bad news in a very positive manner, always providing solutions rather than problems which helped to keep my spirits up. His attention to detail is exceptional, spotting and correcting any issues found along the way.

Thanks also to Mark at Performance Unlimited for helping to source many of the parts that were used and offering advice where needed.

Just another week or so running it in then it's due for an oil and filter change and I might think about taking it to a dyno to see how much power this thing has now.

Hopefully we will be at the Nationals this year....
 
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teamzr1

Supporting vendor
Be interesting if you get your C3 on a dyno and see what the performance numbers are
Just playing with the built, not all parts are exactly as you're but would be nice to see if the performance numbers
I have are close


Overall Application Specs

Intended Usage:
5 - Auto - High Performance Street, Choppy To Mild-Rough Idle
Application:
Automotive
Vehicle Weight:
3500.00
Fuel Metering:
Carburator
Forced Induction:
No
Nitrous:
No

Engine Shortblock Specs

Short Block:
Chevy 460
Number Of Cylinders:
8
Bore:
4.251 in
Stroke:
4.000 in
Cylinder Volume:
930.32 cc
Total Volume:
454.2 ci

Cylinder Head Specs

Cylinder Head Type:
2-Valve, Wedge, HP/Pocket Porting, Large Valves
Intake Valves/Port:
1
Exhaust Valves/Port:
1
Intake Valve Dia:
1.940 in
Exhaust Valve Dia:
1.950 in

Compression Ratio Specs

Compression Ratio:
9.50
CR Calculation Method:
***
Cylinder Head Vol:
***
Head Gasket Volume:
***
Dome Vol (Known):
***
Deck Volume (Both Methods):
***
Relief Vol (Known):
***
Piston Down Bore (Burrette):
***(Arbitrary Distance)
Deck Clear (Known):
***
Measured Volume (Burrette):
***(Measured Volume)

Induction Specs

Manifold Type:
Dual-Plane Max-Flow
Induction Flow:
750.0 cfm
@
1.50 inHg
Flow Coef:
0.04041
Forced Induction:
None
No. Turbos:
NA
Turbine Size:
NA
Turbine A/R Ratio
NA
Internal Ratio:
NA
Belt Ratio:
NA
Boost Limit:
NA
Intercooler Eff:
None
IC Press Drop:
None

Fuel System Specs

Fuel Type:
Gasoline
Nitrous HP Boost:
0.0 HP

Exhaust System Specs

Exhaust Model:
Large-Tube Headers, Mufflers WO/Cat

Engine Performance

Peak Horsepower:
466.8
@
5000
Average Horsepower:
123.0
Peak Torque:
534.6
@
3500
Average Torque:
187.9
 

Forrest Gump

CCCUK regional rep
Great write up and good that you’re back up and running. You certainly had your share of snags along the way!

It’s interesting that your engine builder has selected a 650cfm carb, one would think that could be on the small side for a performance big block. I have a 600cfm on my 383 small block - that works really well, but I’ve always been curious as to what difference a bigger carb (ie 750) would make.
 

Roscobbc

Moderator
Interesting facts (and conversely realities) that can come out of theoretical CFM requirements for carbs and 'actual' CFM being used by the engine........they usually differ significantly.
Example - my 489 cu in BB engine 'ran' 570 hp and 606 ftlb tq on the engine dyno. I'm using a 950 cfm carb, which is really a little too large if one uses the generally calculations for carb sizing (an 850 cfm would be better - and perhaps for more 'snappy' street even a 750 cfm).
When on the dyno the maximum CFM being 'drawn' by the engine (if I recall correctly) was in the mid 600's when at full chat.
This is where theory and reality don't always meet. Carbs are a rather crude and simple tools......although surpringly effective.
All other sorts of things come in play relating to maximising best performance/efficiency out of an engine (including timing, exhaust system and carb jettiing)
 

CaptainK

CCCUK Member
Amazing write up, and good to see you're back on the road. Sorry to hear of all the pain along the way - sounds very expensive. I'm still trying to justify getting a set of new heads for my small block. But too expensive for me.

Is there any chance you could do a write up of your issue for the Club News mag? That'd be great to see it there.
 
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